do you have a condom vending machine in your home?

[ozymandias]

The assholes get laid far too often.

I'v always preferred quality over quantity myself.   

They seem to do well in both respects at times, I know assholes that sleep with the wives of men who are nice guys.   They may not do well personality or intelligence wise, but in looks they can do well.   Plenty of pretty women who seem to think a guy is worthless if he doesn't mistreat them and treat everyone else like shit in the process.

I'll stick to my ethics and principles over getting laid more often.  And if a woman likes and fucks an  asshole over a guy who'll treat her well with respect and thought.....well, she gets what she deserves.  Nothing.

[El]

The assholes get laid far too often.

I'v always preferred quality over quantity myself.   

They seem to do well in both respects at times, I know assholes that sleep with the wives of men who are nice guys.   They may not do well personality or intelligence wise, but in looks they can do well.   Plenty of pretty women who seem to think a guy is worthless if he doesn't mistreat them and treat everyone else like shit in the process.

Part of it is the more of an asshole a guy is, the more willing he is to totally use too-nice girls.  Same is true if genders are reversed- girls how are assholes are more willing to use too-nice guys.  From the perspective of a girl who in retrospect has many "too-nice" tendencies*, I'm starting to become very aware that, unfortunately, gratefulness can be a damn poor motivator for reciprocation.  Kind of sucks to know I may need to learn to be a bit more of an asshole (or at least be OK feeling like one, even if I'm not objectively being one) if I don't want to be walked all over in future relationships.  I think my being totally nice tends to train guys I'm with to feel fine about hurting me. 

*oh god how I hate to admit that

[ozymandias]

The assholes get laid far too often.

I'v always preferred quality over quantity myself.   

They seem to do well in both respects at times, I know assholes that sleep with the wives of men who are nice guys.   They may not do well personality or intelligence wise, but in looks they can do well.   Plenty of pretty women who seem to think a guy is worthless if he doesn't mistreat them and treat everyone else like shit in the process.

Part of it is the more of an asshole a guy is, the more willing he is to totally use too-nice girls.  Same is true if genders are reversed- girls how are assholes are more willing to use too-nice guys.  From the perspective of a girl who in retrospect has many "too-nice" tendencies*, I'm starting to become very aware that, unfortunately, gratefulness can be a damn poor motivator for reciprocation.  Kind of sucks to know I may need to learn to be a bit more of an asshole (or at least be OK feeling like one, even if I'm not objectively being one) if I don't want to be walked all over in future relationships.  I think my being totally nice tends to train guys I'm with to feel fine about hurting me. 

*oh god how I hate to admit that

How about....................JUST BEING YOURSELF, no compromises, no apologies, no WHATEVER.  Playing the GAME begets the GAME and more of the GAME ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I hate to ponder this, but, if anything happened to my wife (and I hope I die before her), I would stay celibate and single for the rest of my life, rather than deal with the mind games of mating, EVER AGAIN!  Rosie Palm and her five sisters would be more than sufficient for me. 

[El]

The assholes get laid far too often.

I'v always preferred quality over quantity myself.   

They seem to do well in both respects at times, I know assholes that sleep with the wives of men who are nice guys.   They may not do well personality or intelligence wise, but in looks they can do well.   Plenty of pretty women who seem to think a guy is worthless if he doesn't mistreat them and treat everyone else like shit in the process.

Part of it is the more of an asshole a guy is, the more willing he is to totally use too-nice girls.  Same is true if genders are reversed- girls how are assholes are more willing to use too-nice guys.  From the perspective of a girl who in retrospect has many "too-nice" tendencies*, I'm starting to become very aware that, unfortunately, gratefulness can be a damn poor motivator for reciprocation.  Kind of sucks to know I may need to learn to be a bit more of an asshole (or at least be OK feeling like one, even if I'm not objectively being one) if I don't want to be walked all over in future relationships.  I think my being totally nice tends to train guys I'm with to feel fine about hurting me. 

*oh god how I hate to admit that

How about....................JUST BEING YOURSELF, no compromises, no apologies, no WHATEVER.  Playing the GAME begets the GAME and more of the GAME ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I hate to ponder this, but, if anything happened to my wife (and I hope I die before her), I would stay celibate and single for the rest of my life, rather than deal with the mind games of mating, EVER AGAIN!  Rosie Palm and her five sisters would be more than sufficient for me. 

Interesting double-bind, isn't it?  From the outside, "nice guys" complain about how assholes always get the "nice girls" who let the guys walk all over them.  When you drag the issue out of the black-and-white 'extreme' ends of the spectrum and take into account how being a spineless doormat like I know I've been in the past (and find it all too easy to be) can actually encourage others to BE assholes- behaviorally, it's reinforced, not punished, and to not be totally 'taking' would be a self-inflicted penalty- it stops being something that's quite so comfortable, because it's not so "easy" any more.  I'm loathe to 'blame the victim,' but at least I can say I think I must have had a part in the way my own relationships have the tendency to end up lopsided.

I wish I could say that the problems I've had have been all a matter of who I date but it seems illogical to think there has been NOTHING interactional about it.  I know I have thus far shown shitty, shitty mate selection, but I also really think I encourage my mates to be selfish by letting them.  The idea of needing to be "more of an asshole" is only half-joking- I think I very likely need to be much more willing to show negative affect/sometimes be a little selfish/just generally be less than "practically everything a guy could ever want" even if I think I very well could be.  I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

[ozymandias]

The assholes get laid far too often.

I'v always preferred quality over quantity myself.   

They seem to do well in both respects at times, I know assholes that sleep with the wives of men who are nice guys.   They may not do well personality or intelligence wise, but in looks they can do well.   Plenty of pretty women who seem to think a guy is worthless if he doesn't mistreat them and treat everyone else like shit in the process.

Part of it is the more of an asshole a guy is, the more willing he is to totally use too-nice girls.  Same is true if genders are reversed- girls how are assholes are more willing to use too-nice guys.  From the perspective of a girl who in retrospect has many "too-nice" tendencies*, I'm starting to become very aware that, unfortunately, gratefulness can be a damn poor motivator for reciprocation.  Kind of sucks to know I may need to learn to be a bit more of an asshole (or at least be OK feeling like one, even if I'm not objectively being one) if I don't want to be walked all over in future relationships.  I think my being totally nice tends to train guys I'm with to feel fine about hurting me. 

*oh god how I hate to admit that

How about....................JUST BEING YOURSELF, no compromises, no apologies, no WHATEVER.  Playing the GAME begets the GAME and more of the GAME ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I hate to ponder this, but, if anything happened to my wife (and I hope I die before her), I would stay celibate and single for the rest of my life, rather than deal with the mind games of mating, EVER AGAIN!  Rosie Palm and her five sisters would be more than sufficient for me. 

Interesting double-bind, isn't it?  From the outside, "nice guys" complain about how assholes always get the "nice girls" who let the guys walk all over them.  When you drag the issue out of the black-and-white 'extreme' ends of the spectrum and take into account how being a spineless doormat like I know I've been in the past (and find it all too easy to be) can actually encourage others to BE assholes- behaviorally, it's reinforced, not punished, and to not be totally 'taking' would be a self-inflicted penalty- it stops being something that's quite so comfortable, because it's not so "easy" any more.  I'm loathe to 'blame the victim,' but at least I can say I think I must have had a part in the way my own relationships have the tendency to end up lopsided.

I wish I could say that the problems I've had have been all a matter of who I date but it seems illogical to think there has been NOTHING interactional about it.  I know I have thus far shown shitty, shitty mate selection, but I also really think I encourage my mates to be selfish by letting them.  The idea of needing to be "more of an asshole" is only half-joking- I think I very likely need to be much more willing to show negative affect/sometimes be a little selfish/just generally be less than "practically everything a guy could ever want" even if I think I very well could be.  I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

Look I hear what your saying, being the "male doormat" in a few relationships.   

[ALLDAYGLOWRANDY]

Lucifer, says get into now?

Was that an offer?

[Pyraxis]

I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

For me it's related to never wanting people to do things "for" me (ie independence = good/safe) and not wanting to be the one making someone else into a doormat. I often find myself in the position of pushing useful gifts back at the recipient, or wanting to refuse them to but not being able to because it would be considered more polite to take them than refuse.

It feeds itself, the asshole/too-nice interplay. Hard to figure out how to be more of a bitch, but in the "right" ways.

[Alex179]

I have avoided relationships because of my tendency to be the nice guy and get walked all over.   As soon as I see the signs of me being treated like shit by someone, I usually give up trying to date them.    Then I can be their friend still sometimes, but usually even that isn't worth the effort.   The last girl I dated lied to me about her having a boyfriend and she treated her friends badly behind their back and to their face.   The way she talked to me at times hinted that she was just trying to be nice, and as soon as she stopped trying it was going to get ugly.   I could definitely see her turning on me like my first girlfriend did, as they did have similarities that were all too obvious personality wise.    As soon as I meet someone who thinks that they are always right, or that they always have to be right, then I should know there is a problem.   They want to have everything their way, every time and never be wrong about anything.   I say no thanks to women like that, there is nobody alive that is always right.

[ozymandias]

I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

For me it's related to never wanting people to do things "for" me (ie independence = good/safe) and not wanting to be the one making someone else into a doormat. I often find myself in the position of pushing useful gifts back at the recipient, or wanting to refuse them to but not being able to because it would be considered more polite to take them than refuse.

It feeds itself, the asshole/too-nice interplay. Hard to figure out how to be more of a bitch, but in the "right" ways.

Oh yes!   

[ozymandias]

I have avoided relationships because of my tendency to be the nice guy and get walked all over.   As soon as I see the signs of me being treated like shit by someone, I usually give up trying to date them.    Then I can be their friend still sometimes, but usually even that isn't worth the effort.   The last girl I dated lied to me about her having a boyfriend and she treated her friends badly behind their back and to their face.   The way she talked to me at times hinted that she was just trying to be nice, and as soon as she stopped trying it was going to get ugly.   I could definitely see her turning on me like my first girlfriend did, as they did have similarities that were all too obvious personality wise.    As soon as I meet someone who thinks that they are always right, or that they always have to be right, then I should know there is a problem.   They want to have everything their way, every time and never be wrong about anything.   I say no thanks to women like that, there is nobody alive that is always right.

My psych consult really focussed on my social avoidance tendencies!   

[El]

I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

For me it's related to never wanting people to do things "for" me (ie independence = good/safe) and not wanting to be the one making someone else into a doormat. I often find myself in the position of pushing useful gifts back at the recipient, or wanting to refuse them to but not being able to because it would be considered more polite to take them than refuse.

It feeds itself, the asshole/too-nice interplay. Hard to figure out how to be more of a bitch, but in the "right" ways.

We should start a pro-bitch online community.

[DirtDawg]

Cool.

Can I watch?

[El]

Cool.

Can I watch?

That was sexist, flippant, and insensitive, but I know you were only joking, so it's not a big deal.

Should I pick you up at eight?  Don't even bother trying to remember to bring gas money- I know you're broke and it always makes me sad when you have that one moment of faux regret upon realizing that you don't have any cash on you.

[driftingblizzard]

I think that what would look from the outside like healthy reciprocity would make me feel like an asshole because it's so alien to me- like, I'm uncomfortable with 'taking'- even in little things, like if in a group we have someone who's sort of designated to make a run to the kictehn to drop off trash/grab drinks, I'm the only one (besides the designated trash guy) who seems to get antsy about it, and half the time I'll end up kind of accompanying them just with my stuff even though there's no sane reason/it's less efficient.  Imagine that tendency permeating most or all apsects of one side of a relationship- there's no way it won't have an effect.

For me it's related to never wanting people to do things "for" me (ie independence = good/safe) and not wanting to be the one making someone else into a doormat. I often find myself in the position of pushing useful gifts back at the recipient, or wanting to refuse them to but not being able to because it would be considered more polite to take them than refuse.

It feeds itself, the asshole/too-nice interplay. Hard to figure out how to be more of a bitch, but in the "right" ways.

We should start a pro-bitch online community.

Guys need that website too....    My first marriage, I thought being a good husband meant always being the one to sacrifice.   I was the big loser there.  Dating time, the more I demanded my boundaries be respected, the more the girl thought of me.
Second marriage, maintained boudaries, she thought I should be the doormat of yesteryear,  so we parted company.   You don't have to be an asshole (and in my opinion it wouldn't lead to a long term relationship anyway), but you do need to know what your personal boundaries are, and enforce them.   

For example, I should not have to be the only one of the two of us to get up to change/feed the baby in the  middle of the night.  ITS YOUR TURN....

[Alex179]

Ideally there would be a balance between being a total asshole or a total pushover.   You would want to be neither.