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I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
Quote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+
Quote from: RageBeoulve on October 30, 2014, 09:48:03 PMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 12:26:49 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 29, 2014, 08:10:55 AMQuote from: odeon on October 29, 2014, 12:01:12 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.
Quote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 12:26:49 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 29, 2014, 08:10:55 AMQuote from: odeon on October 29, 2014, 12:01:12 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.
Quote from: RageBeoulve on October 29, 2014, 08:10:55 AMQuote from: odeon on October 29, 2014, 12:01:12 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
Quote from: odeon on October 29, 2014, 12:01:12 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
Quote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
Quote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity.
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Quote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:50:22 PMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!
Quote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 05:08:09 AMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:50:22 PMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
Michael Shermer is a friend of James Randi, they have worked together on a few projects.I also like Penn & Teller. Their HBO show, BULLSHIT! was an instant classic.
Quote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:49:40 PMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 30, 2014, 09:48:03 PMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 12:26:49 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 29, 2014, 08:10:55 AMQuote from: odeon on October 29, 2014, 12:01:12 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PMQuote from: odeon on October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AMWhen I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.Ideologues can call themselves scholars and politic their way into academia in order to become a "scholar" who allows ideology to color their research. It happens more often than most would like to think.
Quote from: hykeaswell on October 31, 2014, 05:20:07 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 05:08:09 AMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:50:22 PMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more. I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
I would think that such a horrible incident could merit a research effort which yields more final answers.
Quote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 11:36:37 AMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 31, 2014, 05:20:07 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 05:08:09 AMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:50:22 PMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more. I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.FFS, read up on why this is the case first.
Quote from: odeon on November 01, 2014, 03:33:50 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 11:36:37 AMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 31, 2014, 05:20:07 AMQuote from: RageBeoulve on October 31, 2014, 05:08:09 AMQuote from: odeon on October 30, 2014, 11:50:22 PMQuote from: hykeaswell on October 30, 2014, 04:12:54 AMI can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less. On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that. No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good. It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.+The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more. I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.FFS, read up on why this is the case first. I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
