The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz

[odeon]

And hang on.  If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism.  You're a fucking liar.

Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.

I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.

What "conspiracy theories"?  When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway.  Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.

You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.

You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.

But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.

I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.

Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.

My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).

But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.

[RageBeoulve]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity.

No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.

Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.

That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.

[benjimanbreeg]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

If it was only a million does that make it okay?

1 person is 1 too many.  But the Holocaust Industry have made it a crime in some countries to say it's less than 6 million, which is actually true.  They have added millions of phantom deaths to create more guilt, so that people don't criticize Israel when they go on a murderous rampage.  It's repulsive.

[benjimanbreeg]

And hang on.  If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism.  You're a fucking liar.

Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.

I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.

What "conspiracy theories"?  When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway.  Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.

You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.

You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.

You knew nothing about either, which you proved by denying there had been lies and distortions.  You're a fact denier. 

[benjimanbreeg]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.

But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.

I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.

Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.

My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).

But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.

See that's better, you made some kind of effort.  Wasn't so hard was it mate? 

You seem very naive for an OAP.

So that's what you base it on, hearsay?!  Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession".  I guess that's good enough.  "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously.  Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews. 

So no one knows the number, which is clear.   Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world.  Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production.  Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one.  It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously.  As they say "there's no business like Shoa business".  Speilberg should be locked up.

And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38.  They seem to like that number   



I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many.  "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.

 " (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)." 


Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust.  She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway.  Lol, no course not, no agenda!  That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide.  He didn't want other victims being spoken of.  And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US. 

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity.

No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.

Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.

That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.

If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.

But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

If it was only a million does that make it okay?

1 person is 1 too many.  But the Holocaust Industry have made it a crime in some countries to say it's less than 6 million, which is actually true.  They have added millions of phantom deaths to create more guilt, so that people don't criticize Israel when they go on a murderous rampage.  It's repulsive.

I'm pretty sure Israel has used, and still uses, the Holocaust to further their own agenda, but that doesn't mean they added "millions of phantom deaths".

You do know that if you add other groups to the head count, the numbers are significantly higher, right?

I feel a bit sorry for you, actually. It is as if the real world isn't enough for you.

[odeon]

And hang on.  If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism.  You're a fucking liar.

Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.

I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.

What "conspiracy theories"?  When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway.  Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.

You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.

You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.

You knew nothing about either, which you proved by denying there had been lies and distortions.  You're a fact denier.

Another fail. Where did I deny there haven't been lies and distortions? There have been plenty of them but we don't agree on who is lying.

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.

But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.

I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.

Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.

My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).

But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.

See that's better, you made some kind of effort.  Wasn't so hard was it mate? 

You seem very naive for an OAP.

So that's what you base it on, hearsay?!  Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession".  I guess that's good enough.  "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously.  Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews. 

So no one knows the number, which is clear.   Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world.  Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production.  Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one.  It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously.  As they say "there's no business like Shoa business".  Speilberg should be locked up.

And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38.  They seem to like that number   



I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many.  "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.

 " (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)." 


Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust.  She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway.  Lol, no course not, no agenda!  That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide.  He didn't want other victims being spoken of.  And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.

So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...

* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements

Did I forget something?

Fail.

['andersom']

I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.

No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.

It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Most people can't even name the first genocide of the 20th century.   

['andersom']

Would not surprise me if there was one before 1915

[RageBeoulve]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity.

No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.

Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.

That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.

If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.

But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.

No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity.

No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.

Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.

That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.

If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.

But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.

No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.

That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.