Split from Ask hiro thread

[Pyraxis]

McJagger, I agree with everything Postperson and PurposefulInsanity have just said.

If Hiro's PM's are so abusive, fine, let him stop sending the damn PM's. I don't care if he's done this on other sites. If you call him on his past behavior on other sites, I will call Triste on her past behavior on other sites. And that will not be pleasant for her. And if right now Triste is refusing to stay unless he leaves, fine. Let her leave.

Hiro, you hear that? You have as much right to be here as anyone else.

Because PI is right. That attitude does not fit intensity. Don't you fucking call that bull without giving the slightest argument to back it up. No it is not enough that someone says they are hurt. Lots of people in the past, on this site, have said they are hurt. What makes Triste special?

Feel free to insult my character all you like, it won't change the substance of our arguments.

[Lucifer]

the point is, mcj, that people do not know what the fuck is going on, and so we have to take your word for what you say has happened.  no-one's asking anyone who feels attacked to make themselves more vulnerable, and it might be that this particular issue can't be resolved because people don't want to make things public.  however, that does not give you the right to accuse people of trying to silence other people, because they do not know the full story.  they're working with the little information available.

i expect i know a bit more than most, seeing as how i've been dragged into a similar situation before, and yet i am still confused.

and before you start accusing me of defending anyone, or castigating anyone,. you know perfectly well that i'd be the first to get my knickers in a twist over sexual abuse, so stop and think before you accuse me of the same things you've accused PI of, eh?

[McGiver]

the substance of the argument is:

i never asked him to leave.

this is his ask away thread and someone else brought it up.  which they have a right to do.  by PI being a nosey bitch, in his thread is wrong.  we all do it and we all hijack other peoples thread.  this to me is different.  all you and PI are doing is lending voice to an abuser.

i have begun in the main event as promised.  he can settle with me there.  and perhaps if PI had an issue with what triste said, then maybe she should have called her out there.  but rather, she chose this venue, and in effect is silencing someone who feels abused.

what i dont understand is why she chose to answer for hiro, here on his thread.

also, and once again, i never told him he wasn't welcome.  he brings up some interesting loopholes which need to be plugged.  this whole situation is like rape.  all i was doing was lending a voice for the abused.  and it was working until, PI had to step in and silence ONE of the victims further.

perhaps Intensity is now working according to its original intention.  i feel sorry for omega having to defend its base roots with so much rabid opposition and so many willing to lend voice to the abusive.  and i am not talking about public abuse, i am talking about shit that has happened out of the public eye.  this site was used as a vehicle to stalk vulnerable people, to gain access through trickery or a nice guy act.  then it turns into violations of trust, and abuse.


furthermore, pyraxis.  if you have issue with triste, then you should call her out or use her ask away thread.  just because she thought you were machavallian isn't good enough.  and neither is her request to hiro in his thread to leave.
but, some of hiro's actions and his (mental) raping of women, and on other sites is pertinant to establishing a pattern of abuse.
Pyraxis, all you will find is triste may have a pattern of sensitivity, which BTW, she would freely admit.  Hiro, needs to be put on notice that using this site to prey on women are just plain wrong.

he can be like peter, or me, or fluorescent, or peagai, he can be an equal opportunity flamer. IN PUBLIC.

[McGiver]

the point is, mcj, that people do not know what the fuck is going on, and so we have to take your word for what you say has happened.  no-one's asking anyone who feels attacked to make themselves more vulnerable, and it might be that this particular issue can't be resolved because people don't want to make things public.  however, that does not give you the right to accuse people of trying to silence other people, because they do not know the full story.  they're working with the little information available.

i expect i know a bit more than most, seeing as how i've been dragged into a similar situation before, and yet i am still confused.

and before you start accusing me of defending anyone, or castigating anyone,. you know perfectly well that i'd be the first to get my knickers in a twist over sexual abuse, so stop and think before you accuse me of the same things you've accused PI of, eh?

Lucifer,
what about people who do not choose to be silent? what about those who have no choice? what about those who have had their voice beaten, or terrified, or abused, out of them?

Lucifer,
then you are very lucky to have been able to find your voice, again, kevv.

if you'd seen even one of the many PMs i received after i stood up and spoke out about sexism on another board - and said i would continue to do so, even after being villified on the board - from women who'd been abused, and who were too terrified to speak out, in case they got even more abuse from the bullies who were trying it on with me, then you'd be shocked.

people who've had their voices forcibly removed, kevv, can't just "get over it". to make choices, you need the power to do so, as well as the awareness that there is a choice, and the opportunity and the means by which to make that choice.

this isn't about being politically correct. this is about people who have had sanity-threatening, as well as physical life-threatening, abuse.

and i will repeat what i've said elsewhere: you (and this isn't just to kevv) can (misguidedly) call me politically correct all you like, but while there is ONE WOMAN who cannot speak up for herself - or any other member of an "out group" - then i shall speak up for them, and you can try and bully ME into silence as much as you like.

[purposefulinsanity]

The question is if the victims wanted this dealing with privately why did you bring it out into the open at all?  I respect their right to have this dealt with privately, but you're the one who brought it out into the open and who has been saying that you will publically post the evidence (after the election you said)- why would you do that if you knew they wanted it dealing with privately?

I don't want to know all the gory details but I am entitled to be shocked that anyone would be asked to leave (which was posted publically so of course people were going to comment on it)-which is why I posted this morning.  And my shock at this is not going to be lessened any by you calling me names or hinting about what he has done.  If its going to be dealt with privately it should be dealt with privately- not half in the open like this.  Or is the real issue that you got carried away and let out more than you should have done without checking with the victims you're fighting on behalf of?

[McGiver]

you don't even understand what this is about or who i am.

[McGiver]

this portion is public.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php?topic=792.120

the following response hiro asks one of his victims if they want him to leave.
a different victim dsaid yes, and here you come stealing her voice

[purposefulinsanity]

you don't even understand what this is about or who i am.

So enlighten me- why bring something out into the public eye if you know the victims wanted it dealing with privately?  In case you haven't realised the going too far comment was a guess based on the many times in the past you've blamed your impulse control issues.

I am not stealing her voice- I stated I was shocked that anyone would be asked to leave and that was just me stating my opinion as far as I was concerned. I did not think I'll post my opinion and then argue about it for several posts-that has happened because I was told I wasn't entitled to an opinion.  Should I check with you next time to see if I'm allowed an opinion on a subject before I post in future?   Don't you think that you've got your fair share of the blame for blowing this up out of all proportion by the way you've approached me about this? 

[Pyraxis]

i never asked him to leave.

True. Triste asked him to leave. You support Triste which could be implied that you also want him to leave. But you did not actually ask him to leave.

PI being a nosey bitch, in his thread is wrong.  we all do it and we all hijack other peoples thread.  this to me is different.  all you and PI are doing is lending voice to an abuser.

I dispute the accusation that Hiro is an abuser.

That is something I prefer to judge for myself. I have not yet seen anything that makes me certain he is an abuser. I am certain that he has hurt Triste, but I can not judge to what degree because I don't know enough. So all I have to go by is her hurt, and she is by far not the first person to be hurt by what goes on here, so I have no reason to treat her hurt any differently than others'.

PI (...) chose this venue, and in effect is silencing someone who feels abused.

No. She has not told Triste to be quiet, and even if she had, Triste would be free to ignore her. Just like anyone else here. She has just argued with Triste's requests, and with you.

he brings up some interesting loopholes which need to be plugged.

I agree, and I am all in favor of plugging them. But I also think that they can be plugged without Hiro leaving the site - so I have made it clear to him that I think he should stay.

this whole situation is like rape.  all i was doing was lending a voice for the abused.  and it was working until, PI had to step in and silence ONE of the victims further.

Like rape? Yes. Is it rape? No. There is a serious difference between sending a woman rude and sexually explicit PM's (assuming that was what Hiro did - I can't even know that for certain) and physically grabbing her, restraining her, stripping her private areas, and sticking one's penis into her. Don't blow something further out of proportion than it already is.

lend voice to the abusive.  and i am not talking about public abuse, i am talking about shit that has happened out of the public eye.  this site was used as a vehicle to stalk vulnerable people, to gain access through trickery or a nice guy act.  then it turns into violations of trust, and abuse.

Throwing around the "abuse" card does not help your case. I am not going to jump on it and become all meek and back down, just because it's "abuse" - or "racism" or "sexism" or any of these other loaded words that come with an automatic socio-political viewpoint which is met with blind hostility if it is not adopted.

some of hiro's actions and his (mental) raping of women, and on other sites is pertinant to establishing a pattern of abuse.
Pyraxis, all you will find is triste may have a pattern of sensitivity, which BTW, she would freely admit.

Which is fine. But if she has a pattern of sensitivity, and she can't deal with the consequences, then it would not be wise or healthy for her to risk spending time on an uncensored site.

Hiro, needs to be put on notice that using this site to prey on women are just plain wrong.

he can be like peter, or me, or fluorescent, or peagai, he can be an equal opportunity flamer. IN PUBLIC.

I agree. I support that. I support Triste speaking up, and I support you defending her, and I support PI and Vetivert giving you shit for it. And I also support Hiro, who until this argument right here did not have anybody but Postperson sticking up for him. So I'm going to continue to give my opinion.

[Pyraxis]

And one more thing. I really hope Triste has the courage to stay.

[McGiver]

True. Triste asked him to leave. You support Triste which could be implied that you also want him to leave. But you did not actually ask him to leave.

on the contrary, have you read my reply to him in the main event?

[McGiver]

this portion is public.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php?topic=792.120

the following response hiro asks one of his victims if they want him to leave.
a different victim dsaid yes, and here you come stealing her voice

pyraxis said,

I dispute the accusation that Hiro is an abuser.

That is something I prefer to judge for myself. I have not yet seen anything that makes me certain he is an abuser. I am certain that he has hurt Triste, but I can not judge to what degree because I don't know enough. So all I have to go by is her hurt, and she is by far not the first person to be hurt by what goes on here, so I have no reason to treat her hurt any differently than others'.

ah yes, but the other actions have been in public.  people know that when they come here they will be held accountable for their words.  how can someone be held accountable for their words when they are occuring under the cover of darkness?
thats a cowards way.

anything that i have said in private i intend on bringing out.  you know that for a fact.

[McGiver]

No. She has not told Triste to be quiet, and even if she had, Triste would be free to ignore her. Just like anyone else here. She has just argued with Triste's requests, and with you.

I agree, and I am all in favor of plugging them. But I also think that they can be plugged without Hiro leaving the site - so I have made it clear to him that I think he should stay.

can you see your contradiction here.
hiro has every right to ignore triste, just as triste has every right to ignore PI.  but shouldsn't we have heard from hiro first, rather than lend him a false sense of security?

[McGiver]

Like rape? Yes. Is it rape? No. There is a serious difference between sending a woman rude and sexually explicit PM's (assuming that was what Hiro did - I can't even know that for certain) and physically grabbing her, restraining her, stripping her private areas, and sticking one's penis into her. Don't blow something further out of proportion than it already is.

all i have learned here (with my eyes wide open) is that there are several forms of rape.  read the lashback that i heard in the im curious thread in the sex forum about how i simply suggested to the young men to be ready with a response (not physical).

[Pyraxis]

True. Triste asked him to leave. You support Triste which could be implied that you also want him to leave. But you did not actually ask him to leave.

on the contrary, have you read my reply to him in the main event?

Yes, but I'm confused what point you're trying to make here. I said it could be implied - not that you intended it, not that it was implied. I do see the part of your main event thread where you say you don't hold a grudge and presumably that you also hope Hiro can stay.