Theory of Mind thread

[Calandale]

i completely understand that others think differently than i do, but, i believe that they are mostly wrong.  is that T.O.M.

No, that's B.A.A.  (Being An Asshole)

Hey, McJ and I hace SOMETHING in common 

[Kosmonaut]

Ive read psychology books and books about personality. I understand people think differently, but a lot of the time i am completely confused by people.
eg. today i was in a shop and the woman at the counter said, "im sorry if i am frowning, it's not at you, just that i have a headache."
Now: 1. i didn't notice, 2. wtf is she telling me for? - but whatever.
So i says - you should take a sicky.
I would, but you can't do them things when you work for your dad - she replies.
Ah, i remember them days, i say ( an attempt to establish some sort understanding).
Well, i wouldn't mind so much but i have had it for 3 days now, and mumbles something else - i can't remember.
Silence. She gives me the change and apologizes. I leave the shop.
What the fuck is she apologizing for? I have no idea, but i don't want to go in that shop again.
Also, it used to be the cheapest but i noticed the prices have gone up since last time. I may find somewhere else next time. I don't need that shit.

[Christopher McCandless]

Ive read psychology books and books about personality. I understand people think differently, but a lot of the time i am completely confused by people.
eg. today i was in a shop and the woman at the counter said, "im sorry if i am frowning, it's not at you, just that i have a headache."
Now: 1. i didn't notice, 2. wtf is she telling me for? - but whatever.
So i says - you should take a sicky.
I would, but you can't do them things when you work for your dad - she replies.
Ah, i remember them days, i say ( an attempt to establish some sort understanding).
Well, i wouldn't mind so much but i have had it for 3 days now, and mumbles something else - i can't remember.
Silence. She gives me the change and apologizes. I leave the shop.
What the fuck is she apologizing for? I have no idea, but i don't want to go in that shop again.
Also, it used to be the cheapest but i noticed the prices have gone up since last time. I may find somewhere else next time. I don't need that shit.

I assume she was just trying to create conversation with you. Its how smaller shops retain their business, its the personal touch. NT's seem to like it.

[Kosmonaut]

Ive read psychology books and books about personality. I understand people think differently, but a lot of the time i am completely confused by people.
eg. today i was in a shop and the woman at the counter said, "im sorry if i am frowning, it's not at you, just that i have a headache."
Now: 1. i didn't notice, 2. wtf is she telling me for? - but whatever.
So i says - you should take a sicky.
I would, but you can't do them things when you work for your dad - she replies.
Ah, i remember them days, i say ( an attempt to establish some sort understanding).
Well, i wouldn't mind so much but i have had it for 3 days now, and mumbles something else - i can't remember.
Silence. She gives me the change and apologizes. I leave the shop.
What the fuck is she apologizing for? I have no idea, but i don't want to go in that shop again.
Also, it used to be the cheapest but i noticed the prices have gone up since last time. I may find somewhere else next time. I don't need that shit.

I assume she was just trying to create conversation with you. Its how smaller shops retain their business, its the personal touch. NT's seem to like it.

Yes, i think that could be it. I didn't like it when she apologized again after the transaction was finished.
Like she wants something in return, and my leaving the shop without saying goodbye is seen as a snub. I could think about these things for days, but maybe the shopwoman has already forgotten.
I dont know if this is a TOM issue or not. Although i don't really believe in the TOM anyway. It's all just pattern recognition.

[renaeden]

I failed that Sally-Anne test when I was 27. It was done as a different scenario but still. How embarrassing.

i had no ToM whatsoever for ages.  i have learned it, but i still have to remind myself that not everyone else thinks as i do, more or less all the time.  so, i have to deal with that intellectually, and tell myself that others think differently, even if i don't know/believe this within myself, inherently.  if that makes sense.

It makes sense to me. Now when I make plans in my head I have to think to tell GA about them because usually I think if I have thought about it, then he knows automatically.

I didn't talk much as a kid probably because I thought that if I knew something, everybody else did too.

[Walkie]

i'll send you a paper i have on it.  it's mostly academic stuff, but some of it is useful, especially the fact that ToM can be learned.

sounds interesting. Any chance of putting it up where we can all read it? or are you concerned about copyright issues?
Anyway, I'd also like to read it, if poss.

[Christopher McCandless]

Ive read psychology books and books about personality. I understand people think differently, but a lot of the time i am completely confused by people.
eg. today i was in a shop and the woman at the counter said, "im sorry if i am frowning, it's not at you, just that i have a headache."
Now: 1. i didn't notice, 2. wtf is she telling me for? - but whatever.
So i says - you should take a sicky.
I would, but you can't do them things when you work for your dad - she replies.
Ah, i remember them days, i say ( an attempt to establish some sort understanding).
Well, i wouldn't mind so much but i have had it for 3 days now, and mumbles something else - i can't remember.
Silence. She gives me the change and apologizes. I leave the shop.
What the fuck is she apologizing for? I have no idea, but i don't want to go in that shop again.
Also, it used to be the cheapest but i noticed the prices have gone up since last time. I may find somewhere else next time. I don't need that shit.

I assume she was just trying to create conversation with you. Its how smaller shops retain their business, its the personal touch. NT's seem to like it.

Yes, i think that could be it. I didn't like it when she apologized again after the transaction was finished.
Like she wants something in return, and my leaving the shop without saying goodbye is seen as a snub. I could think about these things for days, but maybe the shopwoman has already forgotten.
I dont know if this is a TOM issue or not. Although i don't really believe in the TOM anyway. It's all just pattern recognition.

I doubt she will have remembered you, unless you are a regular there. Given the volume of customers that would go into a shop. I dont believe in the TOM either, putting people into simple models is a bad idea in my view.

[Walkie]

II didn't talk much as a kid probably because I thought that if I knew something, everybody else did too.

I  remember thinking the same  But I knew that other people knew loads of things that I didn't know(like rthe ules for those mysterious ployground games )so maybe that counts as ToM?

So, I used to irritate people by asking loads of difficult questions, then I'd feel deflated 'cause they wouldn't give me an answer. I thought it was maybe  beause they thought I was too too stupid to understand the answer, so I tried all the harder to prove that I was intelligent.  Which also irritated people, oddly enough. *chuckle*

Hmm. Lots of theory of mind there, IMO. Totally off-beam, but I surely had plenty of theories.

[Pyraxis]

Back when I was in therapy I remember going to the guy once, confused, because some girl in one of my classes kept offering me a ride with her to my next class.

He asked me what her motivation might be. I told him I had no idea, thinking that there was no reason for most people to go out of their way to have my company.

He asked me to guess, and I said, "If I were her, I might be doing it because I wanted to get to know the person, or because we both had our next class in the same place and it was more convenient."

He fell all over me with praise for having thought of that angle. It was quite embarrassing. This is the guy who diagnosed me, and he clearly thought I was having some nebulous, disabling 'theory of mind' issues.

He was jumping the gun, though. It was just plain old insecurity.

I suspect people make too much of the whole 'theory of mind' thing. It doesn't occur to plenty of NT's that spectrumites might not think how they do. Look at how many of us were "encouraged" (read: forced) by our parents to learn to socialize, because after all, it's fun, right?

[Walkie]

http://isnt.autistics.org/salanne.html

[El]

I get that people don't think like me.  I have a bit more trouble figuring out what the alternative is, though.  Not so much if I can actually see them, but as far as predicting, sux.

[McGiver]

I get that people don't think like me.  I have a bit more trouble figuring out what the alternative is, though.  Not so much if I can actually see them, but as far as predicting, sux.

i understand that you have an opinion, PMS, but your wrong.

[El]

I get that people don't think like me.  I have a bit more trouble figuring out what the alternative is, though.  Not so much if I can actually see them, but as far as predicting, sux.

i understand that you have an opinion, PMS, but your wrong.

I never thought you would say that.

[McGiver]

I get that people don't think like me.  I have a bit more trouble figuring out what the alternative is, though.  Not so much if I can actually see them, but as far as predicting, sux.

i understand that you have an opinion, PMS, but your wrong.

I never thought you would say that.

yes YOU do, i am making perfect sense.  if you would judt follow the logic....

[El]

I get that people don't think like me.  I have a bit more trouble figuring out what the alternative is, though.  Not so much if I can actually see them, but as far as predicting, sux.

i understand that you have an opinion, PMS, but your wrong.

I never thought you would say that.

yes YOU do, i am making perfect sense.  if you would judt follow the logic....

I'd prefer to follow the cheesecake.