Theory of Mind thread

[Tesla]

My shrink told me I need to study Theory of Mind...  What do you all know about it?  Know any good books to read about it?  Want to share your experiences about using it, and some banana peels you've slipped on?  What are horse shoes?  Do they have horse socks?  Is anybody listening to me?

Theory of mind is the ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself and others. As originally defined, it enables one to understand that mental states can be the cause of—and thus be used to explain and predict—others’ behavior.[4] Being able to attribute mental states to others and understanding them as causes of behavior means, in part, that one must be able to conceive of the mind as a “generator of representations”[5] [6] and to understand that others’ mental representations of the world do not necessarily reflect reality and can be different from one’s own. It also means one must be able to maintain, simultaneously, different representations of the world. It is a ‘theory’ of mind in that such representations are not "directly observable" [7]. Many other human abilities—from skillful social interaction to language use—are said to involve a theory of mind.

I think that knowing this would really help me.  I'm getting tired of being such an idiot about these things.

[Tesla]

 

[Callaway]

I have a little trouble with this myself.  I can pass the Sally-Anne test.

I understand that everyone does not think just like me, but I still assume this and act as if they do sometimes anyway.

[Natalia Evans]

I don't understand the theory of mind myself but the only thing I know about it is someone puts a ball in the box and leaves the room, this other person takes the ball out of the box and places it under a cup. The person who put the ball in the box will look in the box again to get the ball while an aspie or autie would say he would look under the cup. How do I know this? Because there is no way the perosn would know that other person moved his ball to another spot because he wasn't in the room so there is no way he could see it happening. I always look in the same spot where I put my things and find it frustrating when it's moved because then I can't find it.

[Christopher McCandless]

Tesla, what I know about it is very very little. Sorry.

[Callaway]

I don't understand the theory of mind myself but the only thing I know about it is someone puts a ball in the box and leaves the room, this other person takes the ball out of the box and places it under a cup. The person who put the ball in the box will look in the box again to get the ball while an aspie or autie would say he would look under the cup. How do I know this? Because there is no way the perosn would know that other person moved his ball to another spot because he wasn't in the room so there is no way he could see it happening. I always look in the same spot where I put my things and find it frustrating when it's moved because then I can't find it.

Yes, that is the basic description of the Sally-Anne test.

The experimenter uses two dolls, "Sally" and "Anne". Sally has a basket; Anne has a box. Experimenters show their subjects (usually children) a simple skit, in which Sally puts a marble in her basket and then leaves the scene. While Sally is away and cannot watch, Anne takes the marble out of Sally's basket and puts it into her box. Sally then returns and the children are asked where they think she will look for her marble. Children are said to "pass" the test if they understand that Sally will most likely look inside her basket before realizing that her marble isn't there.

Normal children under the age of four, along with most autistic children (of all ages), will answer "Anne's box," seemingly unaware that Sally does not know her marble has been moved.

[Natalia Evans]

I know I would have answered "the box" as a little girl under age 10 not realizing Sall didn't know her marble has been moved. I would have assumed she knew because I saw it happening.

[McGiver]

T.O.M. is a bitch.

[Lucifer]

i'll send you a paper i have on it.  it's mostly academic stuff, but some of it is useful, especially the fact that ToM can be learned.

i had no ToM whatsoever for ages.  i have learned it, but i still have to remind myself that not everyone else thinks as i do, more or less all the time.  so, i have to deal with that intellectually, and tell myself that others think differently, even if i don't know/believe this within myself, inherently.  if that makes sense.

[Tesla]

i'll send you a paper i have on it.  it's mostly academic stuff, but some of it is useful, especially the fact that ToM can be learned.

i had no ToM whatsoever for ages.  i have learned it, but i still have to remind myself that not everyone else thinks as i do, more or less all the time.  so, i have to deal with that intellectually, and tell myself that others think differently, even if i don't know/believe this within myself, inherently.  if that makes sense.

Thank you, that would be very kind of you.  I'd be pleased to read it. 

[McGiver]

i completely understand that others think differently than i do, but, i believe that they are mostly wrong.  is that T.O.M.

[Tesla]

i completely understand that others think differently than i do, but, i believe that they are mostly wrong.  is that T.O.M.

No, that's B.A.A.  (Being An Asshole)

[Lucifer]

i'll send you a paper i have on it.  it's mostly academic stuff, but some of it is useful, especially the fact that ToM can be learned.

i had no ToM whatsoever for ages.  i have learned it, but i still have to remind myself that not everyone else thinks as i do, more or less all the time.  so, i have to deal with that intellectually, and tell myself that others think differently, even if i don't know/believe this within myself, inherently.  if that makes sense.

Thank you, that would be very kind of you.  I'd be pleased to read it. 

on its way.   

i completely understand that others think differently than i do, but, i believe that they are mostly wrong.  is that T.O.M.

lol.  yep, i'd say so - sounds like me. 

[McGiver]

i completely understand that others think differently than i do, but, i believe that they are mostly wrong.  is that T.O.M.

No, that's B.A.A.  (Being An Asshole)

you wish i were 100% asshole.  ever since you found out i thought your dick was cute.....slut.

[Natalia Evans]

I always assume when someone pulls away from me when I hug them, they don't want to be hugged because I do that too. But if they did it for another reason, then I read their body language wrong.

I wonder if this is TOM. I go to the sign in sheet at work before I head for my break and the office clerk sees me but it pisses me off when they PM me during my break telling me a guest wants something. Good god, didn't he or she see me sign out. So it be obvious I am heading for a break. it would also piss me off when they keep PMing me during my dinner break after I told them I was on it. Then few minutes later they PM me again. And in my head I was saying "Don't you people ever look at the sheet to see how long ago we signed out?"

Took me two months to realize has it even occurred to me they didn't know I was signing out for my break because maybe other employees sometimes look at the sheet but don't head for the break. I had to figure that out when I saw myself looking at the sign in sheet but not signing out so bam it all clicked to me about that TOM. It doesn't occur to me either to look at the sheet to see when other employees have signed out for their dinner or for their 15 min. break so I assume the same with others. I assume the same with others about my body actions and what I think. Helps me understand others better and that they weren’t being stupid or aren’t being stupid such as the time when the office clerks kept PMing me on my break. They just didn’t know when I had clocked out and they never thought about looking at the sheet. Besides I don’t always sign out so how would they know I am on a break. I’m sure others do it too because I have seen other employees clocking out but not going to the sheet to write down their time because they walk by it. But I don’t get that problem anymore luckily. They must have finally figured out to ask me how long will it be when I get off my break and I tell them the time.