new member

[morthaur]

is your dad a steady?  where?

Hrmn, I think he's at APL now; he was at Maersk for a while.  He also worries about the jobs disappearin'--and with good reason; that last contract got exemptions for too many growing areas.   

[ozymandias]

Sorry about using your real name, guess I got carried away.  I'll delete it.  Just edit out my quote in your post!

[Alex179]

As a DM do you have much experience dealing with evil aligned parties?   How about Chaotic Evil characters that are actually played that way?

[morthaur]

Sorry about using your real name, guess I got carried away.  I'll delete it.  Just edit out my quote in your post!

Man, don't worry about it now!  It's mentioned in half a dozen posts already!

[morthaur]

As a DM do you have much experience dealing with evil aligned parties?

Yes, but I try to discourage it, since it's never as much fun as some folks think.  Individual evil characters in a party are much easier to explain and to manage, as you need only deal with their reasons for allying themselves with a group.  (In this respect, NE is particularly handy, as selfishness is a common motivator for all kinds of uncharacteristic behaviour!)  Whole parties of evil characters have several problems, notably infighting amongst the characters, and are in effect a group of monsters... which doesn't have much story appeal in the long run.  In my experience, good players get bored of such things really quickly.  Even in games like Vampire one is not dealing with relentless evil in a party; there's too much pathos, etc.

How about Chaotic Evil characters that are actually played that way?

These are almost impossible in a group setting, but I make a practice of disallowing very little (so it has happened).  Two things combine to make the career of a chaotic evil character rather brief.  As an effective monster, he is going to be reviled by most of the folks he encounters (including many characters), so he's likely to be attacked eventually.  And since I use an effective-alignment system adapted from 1st ed., the way the character is played alters that alignment with every act.  Whilst it's possible for someone to play a chaotic evil character, I've never met anyone who could keep it up indefinitely.  The temptation actually to interact in a productive way with friends around the table tends to moderate the alignment itself.

[The_P]

Hulloo, all.  Just registered here on advice of friends elsewhere.  Let's see...

I am a 33-year-old full-time student in a Ph.D. programme.  By research I am an intellectual historian, concentrating on the late 19th century, but also cover the Middle East and modern Europe in general terms.  My interests are fairly broad, which may be why I'm a historian of ideas, and I read a lot of philosophy, science, politics, economics, psychology, etc.  Other than studying and following the news, my interests are pretty slim: I avoid most television and cannot play any sport.  However, I do make time for D&D games, music, weird cartoons, and the Internet.

Hiya. I'm just an unemployed bum who's a belligerent asshole on the internet.

Thank you. Come again.

[Alex179]

Playing the game like monsters was fun for me as a break from the usual party makeup.   We always had someone after us, trying to stop us from doing something.   Our interrogation and torture tactics were the most fun part of the game sometimes.   The last quest we had was to get a scale off of Tiamat for a Lich.   I had a friend play a Chaotic Neutral Berserker, that is an fun class and alignment to play from what I could tell.

I played a Chaotic Evil Preist (lol used opposite skills) and I had to comprimise sometimes just to allow us to advance, we were feared and hated everywhere pretty much due to me attacking anyone at any time.  Basically I held off attacking some NPCs.   It was very difficult for me to get resurrected, almost impossible.  Being that I rolled a high natural DEX I could regularly lay hands on people and kill them.  We used to play 2nd edition actually.

[ozymandias]

Sorry about using your real name, guess I got carried away.  I'll delete it.  Just edit out my quote in your post!

Man, don't worry about it now!  It's mentioned in half a dozen posts already!

FWIW, I gave out my real name, Steve, fairly early on last year.

[morthaur]

Hiya. I'm just an unemployed bum who's a belligerent asshole on the internet.

Thank you. Come again.

Well, you could always get a job and stop bitching...   

[odeon]

We don't want him to stop bitching.

[Lucifer]

Hiya. I'm just an unemployed bum who's a belligerent asshole on the internet.

Thank you. Come again.

Well, you could always get a job and stop bitching...   

not always that easy, you know.

[morthaur]

not always that easy, you know.

Yeah, I know; I wouldn't be so flippant with someone whom I knew needed to find work.  I was being ironic/sarcastic, since his message was actually directed to me.  But since I'm not unemployed...

[ozymandias]

Ah, I see your settling in quite nicely.   This place can be addicting, I'v left and come back at least twice so far!   And my post count here is higher than AI and Fractalus combined.  And that has been done in less than a year and 1/3 since I joined!   We also have fun with trolls that come here.  LGB and compu-pikachu would be welcome here.   They're opinions and views would certainly be put to the test.    We even discussed mishmish at some point awhile ago.  She has become the byword for "endless debate" and  .
Somewhere around here is also the Pathetically Pathological Last Word Getter In Club  aka PPLWGIC.  Not to be confused with the Last Word Game in the games forum!

[Pyraxis]

Whilst it's possible for someone to play a chaotic evil character, I've never met anyone who could keep it up indefinitely.  The temptation actually to interact in a productive way with friends around the table tends to moderate the alignment itself.

I think it raises interesting questions about whether it's necessary for chaotic evil to be unproductive. Evil has its own ends and if someone else around the table can further them, why not interact productively? I tend to think of chaotic (the alignment) changing its goals according to fleeting whims, but not necessarily fucking itself over by making everyone hate it until they murder it.

If chaotic evil were utterly unproductive, how could the Tanar'ri of the Abyss stand a fighting chance against the organized and disciplined devils of Baatar in the Blood War?

[morthaur]

Playing the game like monsters was fun for me as a break from the usual party makeup.   We always had someone after us, trying to stop us from doing something.   Our interrogation and torture tactics were the most fun part of the game sometimes. ...

It does make for a nice change.  I have a character right now that's an NE sorcerer, who follows along with a larger group of good and neutral characters (three goody two-shoes plus a druid and a rogue) mostly because he is neurotic and cowardly.     Good fun.

Whilst it's possible for someone to play a chaotic evil character, I've never met anyone who could keep it up indefinitely.  The temptation actually to interact in a productive way with friends around the table tends to moderate the alignment itself.

I think it raises interesting questions about whether it's necessary for chaotic evil to be unproductive. Evil has its own ends and if someone else around the table can further them, why not interact productively? I tend to think of chaotic (the alignment) changing its goals according to fleeting whims, but not necessarily fucking itself over by making everyone hate it until they murder it.

I have the same objection with the Chaotic Neutral alignment.  People often characterise them as lunatics, gambling away everything on a whim and so forth.  But why?  All it means is that, a) one rejects legal frameworks, i.e. is an anarchist, and b) that one has an ambiguous moral sense, choosing actions not because they are 'good' per se, but for other (variable) reasons.  I think that it is/would be a far more common alignment if the madhouse stereotype disappeared.

Anyroad, as for CE characters, I agree that there is no need for outright irrationality in playing one.  Obviously Orcs are not going blindly to attack anything that moves!  But it is difficult to play them without an impulsive or anti-intellectual streak; when you combine a repudiation of law with a penchant for self-serving mayhem you end up with a rather unpredictable fellow!  Productive interaction is certainly possible, but it's not all that likely to be long-lasting.

If chaotic evil were utterly unproductive, how could the Tanar'ri of the Abyss stand a fighting chance against the organized and disciplined devils of Baatar in the Blood War?

Oh, this seems like rather a different question!  For myself, I always saw it more in terms of a higher 'birth-rate' (or whatever).  The Baatezu are clever strategists, whereas the Tanar'ri rely on sheer numbers.