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Author Topic: What have you bought lately?  (Read 232776 times)

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Offline Lestat

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7050 on: April 20, 2016, 09:17:53 PM »
Did you use to smoke (or still do of course), grey area? using the efag as a quitting aid, or do you just find you like it for other reasons.


I got one first a while back, and have used them ever since although I prefer the higher strength ones, I think if I went for weaker ones I would just end up taking longer, harder and more frequent drags on it to compensate. Smoking some from a freebie bottle of e-liquid that the place I ordered from last, totally wicked its called, theyre quite reliable and reputable, UK based and fast to deliver, my last order took just two days, that is, it arrived not the day after placing the order but the following morning. Faster than I expected. And because I ordered a few bottles at a time, of a few different flavours they sent me another one for nothing. Turned out to be 'iced lemon&lime flavour, and its really nice, one of the better ones I've had.

I do wish there were some better quality control though with respect to the hardware itself, the batteries seem never to be very durable at all and to die often. I've got a big pile of mine, and my dad's e-fag batteries that have died. I have quite a collection now, as I keep every failed, dead battery for later use.
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Offline Jack

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7051 on: April 20, 2016, 09:46:25 PM »
Lestat, was actually wondering recently in another thread what you know about the fluids, propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, used in ecigarettes and vaporizers, and what you might know about their reaction to heat which is taking place in the atomizer.  http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,20700.msg1111380/topicseen.html#msg1111380

Offline WolFish

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7052 on: April 21, 2016, 01:48:04 AM »
Smokey Quartz and Chrysocolla.

The smoky quartz is nice. I am looking for a piece of aqua aura to replace one that went down the black hole of ADHD.
I have a lot of rocks but mine are all apartment sized - at least a tenth the size of yours.
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Offline WolFish

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7053 on: April 21, 2016, 01:52:22 AM »
Lestat, was actually wondering recently in another thread what you know about the fluids, propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, used in ecigarettes and vaporizers, and what you might know about their reaction to heat which is taking place in the atomizer.  http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,20700.msg1111380/topicseen.html#msg1111380
I too am interested in the propylene glycol as I get exposure to it every March in asthma inhalers. Salt pipes only work for minor symptoms.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7054 on: April 21, 2016, 07:25:20 AM »
Actually I have quite a major concern about the ones based on glycerine as well as PG.

The PG, I am not bothered about. What worries me so much is the glycerine. Because glycerine can be dehydrated, either by means chemical, or thermally. Glycerine's structure is simple enough; 1,2,3-propanetriol
This can undergo dehydration and rearrangement to a real little charmer and no mistake, prop-2-ene-1-al or to give a trivial name, acrylic, or allylic aldehyde. Its produced as I said by dehydration


to give acrolein, in bulk form enough to handle, more than whatever is being vaporised, I mean, having deliberately synthed some many years ago, using anhydrous sodium bisulfate, I simply mixed the two chemicals together, hooked up the appropriate glassware to do so, stuck both in the rxn vessel chosen (don't ask me what kind of flask, condenser, still heads I used, this was years ago, and not something that ever led to any truly interesting projects, that was just a diversion for me really when I wanted something to occupy my mind, and , oppoywant of money, but for want either of a supplier which HAS those things, or if they do, but only companies with shitty bad attitudes like sigma-aldrich, who with the most disgusting condecension, won't deign to sell an individual so much as a single grain of table salt; and I am not affiliated with officialdom in any sense, nor am I through a university or similar, so theres plenty places that are of no use to the citizen chemist, or to the more clandestine variety either.)

Anyhow, make some prop-2-enal I did. Wished I hadn't, too. Its really noxious stuff, volatile, it stinks to high heaven, not really an easily definable smell. And its masked by the fact that its a powerful, aggressive lachrymatory agent (tear gas, choking agent type stuff), and the slightest whiff in the air makes sharing that space intolerable, it'll leave you gasping for breath, with your nose and eyes pouring forth a huge torrent of tears and nasal secretions. Makes one feel like they are about to vomit, probably makes it happen too, to anyone willing to remain near some acrolein.

Smelll itself, though relatively faint compared to some, is like rotting animal fat, thats been set on fire, with heavy overtones of burnt grease, and acrid, irritant beyond belief. Its toxic as all hell,  mutagenic and carcinogenic.

Ive been meaning to switch to pure propylyne glycol, even if it means making the liquid from flavour concentrates and nicotine sulfate myself, I am sure that the E-cigs aren't anything like as
terrible for health as smoking tobacco, so an improvement at least. Compared to the thousands of nasty things in tobacco, such as nitrosamines, hydrogen  cyanide gas, HCHO, CO, hell, tobacco plants apparently bioaccumulate polonium from the soil, presumable 210Po given its the commonest isotope in human general use.


In the end, I had to get rid of some acrolein another time too, after I'd finished using it, the leftovers had to go since it can polymerize violently if it gets old. So, down the sink it went, flushed with water. Ufortunately for me I turned the hot tap on instead of cold, which promptly vaporized whilst down the plug hole, sending a gout of acrolein vapor in my direction.

Lachrymatory? the word really doesnt at all do justice to this substance. To compare it with capsaicin or blazing hot peppers, the latter can't hold a candle to it, mono- or dichloroacetone doesn't do it justice, nor CS 'gas', I've never made CN, CR, adamsite or phosgene oxime, so I can't compare those. A lot worse too, than the likes of acyl halides (like acetyl  chloride, propionyl chloride, allyl bromide,elemental  bromine fumes or chlorine gas. Chromyl chloride comes close if allowed to escape. Which is why it shouldn't be, nasty, toxic, corrosive, and hydrolyses into hexavalent Cr species and HCl fumes. Its an orangy-dark red liquid, looks like bromine, powerful oxidizer  (made by distilling a mixture of either a dichromate salt, or chromic anhydride, aka trioxide  with salt and concentrated sulfuric acid, collecting the distillate in a  suitable vessel until one wishes to make use of it.)


Acrolein is typically exposed to people, thankfully only in small quantities, when fat burns (lipids are often based on glyceryl esters)(anyone working in F can work it out themselves, because I confess, its such a useless, 'proprietary' almost, scale, C, based on the BP of H2O actually makes sense, and is at least,I never use it, and really never bothered to learn it either since its little more than a nuisance used by americans and really old farts  he or in cigarette smoke.re in england haha. ) but at 280'C  glycerine dehydrates, losing two molecules of H2O.
I advise using the lowest satisfactory voltage level if the efags one uses be the variable yield type.

Anyone wants to find out just what a vicious little utter bastard of a chemical acrolein is, take a few ml of glycerine, and some sodium bisulfate (look around online, its available without
difficulty or restriction in some cleaning products, iirc 'sani-flush' is one such, although I've always just bought bisulfate from my suppliers, but take  a ml or two of glycerine and some bisulfate, after evaporating off the water from the cleaning product (this is a DEhydration, after all ;)) and heat the two together strongly, a tin can will do really, if you haven't a test-tube or other long container that resists heat. Once your done, and believe you me, you will KNOW about it, take one or two drops of the resulting liquid, onto a tissue or something, and use one's hands to waft the vapor to one's nose from a foot or so off, that tiny kind of exposure isn't going to do anyone real harm, I myself surely copped a lot more when I accidentally
vaporised the lot, after tipping it down the sink and flushing, stupidly, with HOT water, ugh yuck!.

Hehe, something tells me that not very many people will be tempted to do it twice :zombiefuck:

Propylene glycol isn't anything to worry about, its often used like glycerine, as a humectant in things that are intended for human consumption, and a medicine excipient. Not toxic stuff, ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is toxic, but thats because it gets metabolized to the toxic oxalic acid mainly, that doesn't follow through either to POLYethylene glycols, or to propylene glycol (glycol is a synonym for 'diol', btw). PG is harmless stuff.
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Offline Jesse

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7055 on: April 21, 2016, 01:55:46 PM »
Hubert, yer right. I can't stop!  :laugh:
Rockhound: Thanks!
Wolfish, I hope you can get one. I still have things to get as well
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Offline Jack

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7056 on: April 21, 2016, 05:20:40 PM »
Actually I have quite a major concern about the ones based on glycerine as well as PG.

The PG, I am not bothered about. What worries me so much is the glycerine. Because glycerine can be dehydrated, either by means chemical, or thermally. Glycerine's structure is simple enough; 1,2,3-propanetriol
This can undergo dehydration and rearrangement to a real little charmer and no mistake, prop-2-ene-1-al or to give a trivial name, acrylic, or allylic aldehyde. Its produced as I said by dehydration


to give acrolein, in bulk form enough to handle, more than whatever is being vaporised, I mean, having deliberately synthed some many years ago, using anhydrous sodium bisulfate, I simply mixed the two chemicals together, hooked up the appropriate glassware to do so, stuck both in the rxn vessel chosen (don't ask me what kind of flask, condenser, still heads I used, this was years ago, and not something that ever led to any truly interesting projects, that was just a diversion for me really when I wanted something to occupy my mind, and , oppoywant of money, but for want either of a supplier which HAS those things, or if they do, but only companies with shitty bad attitudes like sigma-aldrich, who with the most disgusting condecension, won't deign to sell an individual so much as a single grain of table salt; and I am not affiliated with officialdom in any sense, nor am I through a university or similar, so theres plenty places that are of no use to the citizen chemist, or to the more clandestine variety either.)

Anyhow, make some prop-2-enal I did. Wished I hadn't, too. Its really noxious stuff, volatile, it stinks to high heaven, not really an easily definable smell. And its masked by the fact that its a powerful, aggressive lachrymatory agent (tear gas, choking agent type stuff), and the slightest whiff in the air makes sharing that space intolerable, it'll leave you gasping for breath, with your nose and eyes pouring forth a huge torrent of tears and nasal secretions. Makes one feel like they are about to vomit, probably makes it happen too, to anyone willing to remain near some acrolein.

Smelll itself, though relatively faint compared to some, is like rotting animal fat, thats been set on fire, with heavy overtones of burnt grease, and acrid, irritant beyond belief. Its toxic as all hell,  mutagenic and carcinogenic.

Ive been meaning to switch to pure propylyne glycol, even if it means making the liquid from flavour concentrates and nicotine sulfate myself, I am sure that the E-cigs aren't anything like as
terrible for health as smoking tobacco, so an improvement at least. Compared to the thousands of nasty things in tobacco, such as nitrosamines, hydrogen  cyanide gas, HCHO, CO, hell, tobacco plants apparently bioaccumulate polonium from the soil, presumable 210Po given its the commonest isotope in human general use.


In the end, I had to get rid of some acrolein another time too, after I'd finished using it, the leftovers had to go since it can polymerize violently if it gets old. So, down the sink it went, flushed with water. Ufortunately for me I turned the hot tap on instead of cold, which promptly vaporized whilst down the plug hole, sending a gout of acrolein vapor in my direction.

Lachrymatory? the word really doesnt at all do justice to this substance. To compare it with capsaicin or blazing hot peppers, the latter can't hold a candle to it, mono- or dichloroacetone doesn't do it justice, nor CS 'gas', I've never made CN, CR, adamsite or phosgene oxime, so I can't compare those. A lot worse too, than the likes of acyl halides (like acetyl  chloride, propionyl chloride, allyl bromide,elemental  bromine fumes or chlorine gas. Chromyl chloride comes close if allowed to escape. Which is why it shouldn't be, nasty, toxic, corrosive, and hydrolyses into hexavalent Cr species and HCl fumes. Its an orangy-dark red liquid, looks like bromine, powerful oxidizer  (made by distilling a mixture of either a dichromate salt, or chromic anhydride, aka trioxide  with salt and concentrated sulfuric acid, collecting the distillate in a  suitable vessel until one wishes to make use of it.)


Acrolein is typically exposed to people, thankfully only in small quantities, when fat burns (lipids are often based on glyceryl esters)(anyone working in F can work it out themselves, because I confess, its such a useless, 'proprietary' almost, scale, C, based on the BP of H2O actually makes sense, and is at least,I never use it, and really never bothered to learn it either since its little more than a nuisance used by americans and really old farts  he or in cigarette smoke.re in england haha. ) but at 280'C  glycerine dehydrates, losing two molecules of H2O.
I advise using the lowest satisfactory voltage level if the efags one uses be the variable yield type.

Anyone wants to find out just what a vicious little utter bastard of a chemical acrolein is, take a few ml of glycerine, and some sodium bisulfate (look around online, its available without
difficulty or restriction in some cleaning products, iirc 'sani-flush' is one such, although I've always just bought bisulfate from my suppliers, but take  a ml or two of glycerine and some bisulfate, after evaporating off the water from the cleaning product (this is a DEhydration, after all ;)) and heat the two together strongly, a tin can will do really, if you haven't a test-tube or other long container that resists heat. Once your done, and believe you me, you will KNOW about it, take one or two drops of the resulting liquid, onto a tissue or something, and use one's hands to waft the vapor to one's nose from a foot or so off, that tiny kind of exposure isn't going to do anyone real harm, I myself surely copped a lot more when I accidentally
vaporised the lot, after tipping it down the sink and flushing, stupidly, with HOT water, ugh yuck!.

Hehe, something tells me that not very many people will be tempted to do it twice :zombiefuck:

Propylene glycol isn't anything to worry about, its often used like glycerine, as a humectant in things that are intended for human consumption, and a medicine excipient. Not toxic stuff, ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is toxic, but thats because it gets metabolized to the toxic oxalic acid mainly, that doesn't follow through either to POLYethylene glycols, or to propylene glycol (glycol is a synonym for 'diol', btw). PG is harmless stuff.
Thanks, Lestat. Interesting have seen vegetable glycerin promoted as better because it's 'natural' vegetable based.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 05:22:36 PM by Jack »

Offline Lestat

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7057 on: April 21, 2016, 08:15:58 PM »
Not a problem. I suppose it at least saves the need to find out what the stuff is like up close and personal if you don't actually decide to do so by choice. Although its an interesting enough little experiment, and a very handy thing too, if ever you need a military strength teargas type chemical weapon (its not used by militaries, mind you, it has awful storage properties, reactive group on each end with its allylic double bond on one and an aldehyde on the other, its  very structure begs for condensation rxns of the intramolecular variety. And it does, it polymerizes first to tarry stuff, then to solid plasticish crap if stored for long, hardly applicable to a successful chemical munition. But its brutal enough stuff certainly, and easy as hell to make, I managed it with just the contents of a modern (read 'nanny-fied piss-poor and lacking all the really really useful stuff like strong acids/bases, organometallics, decent variety or amounts of solvents, red/white phosphorus, anything with mercury or other heavy metals, and no iodine crystals, only tincture, nor ampoules of bromine, Li/Na/K/Rb/Cs or NaK alloy.' where the word 'modern' appears!)

Well not strictly true, I did need to buy some glycerine from the pharmacy down the road from me but thats it.





Whoever was promoting vegetable glycerine as somehow better (did this mean better than propylene glycol, better than other ingredients of some nature, or vegetable-derived glycerine being better than that derived from animal fat sources, or produced by somebody in a glass flask?) either way, they are full of shit.

The premise 'its better because its ''natural'' is often touted by people trying to sell products, or parroted blindly by woolly-minded tree-hugging types who are too much of a pack of bellends to step back and actually apply logic, to figure out for themselves if those claims speak truth, or if they are about as full of goodness as a bowl of fair-trade eco-friendly 'green' recycled, 'cardboard-brekky' flakes served in a bowl of whatever that low-fat, low-cal 'lite' stuff is thats nominally whitish, liquid, and of bovine origin, but which is otherwise undeterminable, probably for the best, too. Skimmed milk, allegedly. But I wouldn't be caught saying so in public for fear of being sued by trading standards. Or worse, all those 'milk's that are made from rice, oat, or that abhorrent filth known as soy milk to its devotees, and sewage to everybody else.


Glycerine, or anything else, (with the sole exception of compounds having different stereoisomers, positional isomers etc., from the natural origin, because of the biology of whatever produces it, and
stereoselectivity of enzymes being as great as it is, vs what may well just turn out as a racemic mixture or other isomer when the most widely known or used synthetic routes are applied, this is not necessarily better or worse, only different) is just the same no matter what it comes from or how. It is a very simple, small, and a-chiral substance. Ergo glycerine, is glycerine, is glycerine.

Its always irked me that people can be that STUPID as to promote things or be suckered into buying what the morons are spouting and selling, we use atropine, scopolamine (hyoscine) etc in medicine, this comes from the deadly nightshade plant, belladonna. As well as can be found in Daturas, Brugmansias, mandrake, henbane and others of the solanaceae tribe. But in the natural form, they are unpredictable, with regards to alkaloid content, and as such far less controllable, which in something highly toxic equals less safe.

Or how about arsenic? perfectly natural, either as its compounds or as native arsenic 'metal'. Same could be said of almost anything for which both a use in a refined form exists, and which is found in some form as, or in a natural entity, and which is also toxic. Whats better? being able to control precisely the dose so as to heal, not poison? or trusting to chance and knowledge of the plant or animal or mineral's general tendencies and properties?  Castor oil is a perfect example. The oil is pressed from the castor bean, the seed of the plant Ricinus communis. And the seeds are packed full of ricin, in a layer just under the shell, for those unfamiliar, its one of the deadliest natural toxins to be found, taking, once it gets into a cell to do its dirty work, just a single solitary molecule of ricin to inactivate, permanently, every last ribosome there, terminating translation of genes to their encoded protein products, and thus killing the cell. Castor oil however is extracted, or should be, in such a manner as to leave the ricin behind with the seed waste. As it is, its purgative. If it left all that perfectly natural, ricin-o-liciousness in there, it would just be a deadly, and extremely potent poison. The difference between the two, is the application of the hand of man. One seed is all it takes to kill a person, if ingested, just one, if the hard external seed coat is broken before or after it be consumed. So there'd be enough if it all went into the oil in one bottle to take out a decently sized town, if it could be divided into single human lethal doses and the population lined up and poisoned
one by one until they all got some, by some deranged maniac with a bottle of now-with-added-ricin castor oil.

'Natural', quite simply, doesn't mean a fucking thing, with very occasional exceptions to that rule. Glycerine, will be 1,2,3-propanetriol, without giving a tinker's turd how it came to exist. And nor should anybody else. The only exception, to that, I guess, is for people whom choose not to consume animal products for reasons like being a vegetarian, but that doesn't change the nature of the product, only the reason for consuming one over the other, if that choice is made at all.


Come to think of it if you use an e-fag and its ever ran dry whilst your taking a pull, that choking, acrid, irritating crap that makes you cough and splutter and tear up? thats what made me concerned
about acrolein formation, and thusly, exposure to begin with. Knowing glycerine dehydrates to it,  it was pretty obviously recognizable from my first run in with the stuff in its pure form that it was the probable bad actor there. I'd recognize that stink anywhere, I think, coupled with the lachrymatory effects. I'd have it banned from use were I in power, glycerine, that is, from being used in e-liquids or c-liquids. Or at least, place strong limitations upon the permissible concentration as a percentage. There doesn't seem to be much to warrant its use anyway, if propylene glycol is used.  And I don't get the use of both together. Why, if one has a good enough option, of low likely harmfullness, would it be good to dilute it with/mix in something much less appetizing? after all, do people have half a bowl full of piss with their cornflakes, and half a bowl of milk? no, at least I don't, I stick with the milk :D
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Offline Jack

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7058 on: April 22, 2016, 05:20:40 PM »
Whoever was promoting vegetable glycerine as somehow better (did this mean better than propylene glycol, better than other ingredients of some nature, or vegetable-derived glycerine being better than that derived from animal fat sources, or produced by somebody in a glass flask?) either way, they are full of shit.
Can't remember exactly. The part of being better may have been my own perception based on how the product was advertised, and a vegetable base product may simply sound like a better idea than a petroleum based product. Many e-cigarette liquids are a mixture of the two, but can recall seeing a distributor offering pure vegetable glycerin liquids touted as natural and organic. Though you're right, it's probably marketing strategy like the line about e-cigarette clouds being simple water vapor.

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7059 on: April 22, 2016, 10:07:51 PM »
pen refills, paper, a binder and a pair of tongs I've had my eye on for 6 months.

also a monitor stand but that won't arrive for a bit.
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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7060 on: April 23, 2016, 10:40:31 AM »
A Saab hubcap from the 60s or 70s at a tag sale
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Offline Lestat

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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7061 on: April 23, 2016, 12:06:48 PM »
Propylene glycol isn't a petroleum distillate fraction at all, its just an small molecule alcohol. PEGs (polyethylene glycols, of varying molecular weights, POLYethylene glycol is no longer toxic and isn't metabolized to oxalate. Its plastic, more or less, and harmless, PG is a liquid, but nontoxic unlike ethylene glycol, and its quite safe, used in food products as a humectant sometimes (a humectant is something thats used to help retain some moisture in an item, to keep it soft and pliant).

The line about being just water vapor is an outright, blatant lie. Its a cloud of propylene glycol and glycerine, assuming both are present. There is water in a lot of e-liquids maybe all of them, but its not the only thing in there, theres the glycerine, PG, flavourings, nicotine and sometimes colors, in one for some reason I also found maltitol, one of the polyols (sugar-alcohols, like pentaerythritol and xylitol). That ruined wicks faster than any other I've ever tried. I'm guessing maybe it can caramelize like sugar if heated, clogging the element. It definitely did that!)



I'd FAR prefer a pure PG based one, other than the nicotine and flavouring that is. The claim about glycerine, vegetable derived or otherwise being healthier, is one I harbour grave doubts about. Afterall, what sounds more appetizing. A base that doesn't, or one that does decompose with excess heat exposure to something horribly toxic, irritant, carcinogenic, mutagenic and to top it all off, a tear gas. And an aggressive little bugger of a lachrymator at that. I'd sooner not inhale (or ever again have anything to DO with) acrolein.
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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7062 on: April 23, 2016, 02:34:47 PM »
Two birthday presents and the accompanying cards and wraps.  Some kitchen storage items, food, etc.
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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7063 on: April 23, 2016, 02:58:29 PM »
Candles, paper napkins, garlic press, water carafes, food, beer.
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Re: What have you bought lately?
« Reply #7064 on: April 23, 2016, 06:01:47 PM »
Propylene glycol isn't a petroleum distillate fraction at all, its just an small molecule alcohol.
Okay. Hubert said propylene glycol is produced from propylene which is produced from petroleum. Is it just far enough removed for that to not matter? Also have had some previous notion both propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin are oil substances, one being petroleum based and the other plant based. Though don't know enough about chemistry to know if calling them oils is correct.