Where did the US screw up?

[Christopher McCandless]

obviously, you can't know the way in which the USA is shoved down the throats of people who don't live there, day in, day out, as some sort of utopia. 

Oh, you have to be kidding.
The reactions that I get from just
about every foreign person is that this
place isn't as HORRIBLE as they were led
to believe.

I would say my impression didnt really change since I went there on holiday personally. But then i didnt think it was totally horrible to begin with.

[Eclair]

It's the notion that an elitist few make up the whole is where I am exhausted. I'm done with that bullshit.

I'm saying your government screws over the underdog. 

As if they all don't? Wake up!
Try to imagine where your country would be without the billions of US$, which you seem to have disdain for, that have crossed the ocean for your benefit. You should not ask for an apology. You should remove your hat and offer a humble thank you, since German is not your country's first language.

I'm really done, though, because I am not so patriotic as to promote the conditions here with a full heart, but I am tired of people thinking that we, as a whole, are nothing more than the Bush administration.

I don't want the fullness of my disgust to be personal, so I will offer an apology to you, for calling you names, but get off the fucking soap box. There are many of us who feel the same way as you and we are trying to do the best we can on a daily basis. The present may be lost, but the future is where our hope lies and there is quite a bit of good here which makes the USA worth the salvage efforts.

I believe I said your government treats it's people like shit and you eventually agreed with me, but you have put me down every chance you had, despite deliberately misinterpreting what I have clearly said several times. 

You can stick your apology up your ass.

Very well, then.
I honestly don't see how I have misinterpreted your statements.

You have basically said that we are all shit, because of our government's corruption. I am not agreeing.

I am not putting you down - only pointing out your double standard.

I NEVER said that, thank you very much.
The essence of my argument was that your government spends way too much on it's image of being a super power, yet lets it's own citizens down with a very weak health system, amongst other things.  What is so hard to grasp about that 

My government, I agree, spends way too much time up your government's ass and I do believe earlier that I said most Australians would agree with me.

The health system in Australia doesn't seem any better than the one in the US.

I would disagree.  People complain about waiting lists for some surgery, however, in reality, if I had cancer tomorrow, I could get treated straight away.

Not sure how our system works for tourists, although we have some reciprocal rights with the UK for treatments.

[QuirkyCarla]

I didn't mean healthcare for tourists. I was referring to how expensive it is. Also, I remember reading an article about how there is very little treatment for people with eating disorders in the Australian public health system, and a lot of Australians with eating disorders are dying because the public health system is failing them, and they can't afford private health care. Also, the waiting lists in the USA are usually for organs afaik, and people with cancer do get treated right away.

[Eclair]

I didn't mean healthcare for tourists. I was referring to how expensive it is. Also, I remember reading an article about how there is very little treatment for people with eating disorders in the Australian public health system, and a lot of Australians with eating disorders are dying because the public health system is failing them, and they can't afford private health care. Also, the waiting lists in the USA are usually for organs afaik, and people with cancer do get treated right away.

I explained what the rebates are, I don't think paying $20 ie; two packs of cigarettes is that expensive, myself.  People on pensions, disability, single parents etc, get a health care card so they get bulk billed for most things...ie; they pay nothing.

Australia is not top of the list in it's treatments of every disease, I don't think I said that anywhere. 

My impression is Americans complain their health insurance is too high and they can't get treatment unless they pay for it.  But maybe Americans just whinge generally 

[Eclair]

I guess this must just be wrong also;

http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf

[QuirkyCarla]

I didn't say there were no problems with the US healthcare system. (There are millions of Americans who are uninsured and many have to pay high copays.) I was just pointing out that Australia's isn't so wonderful. IMO no country seems to have a great system and everything is a tradeoff. In countries where everyone has access to healthcare, there are also longer waits at doctor's offices and a greater need for doctors.

[Eclair]

I didn't say there were no problems with the US healthcare system. (There are millions of Americans who are uninsured and many have to pay high copays.) I was just pointing out that Australia's isn't so wonderful. IMO no country seems to have a great system and everything is a tradeoff. In countries where everyone has access to healthcare, there are also longer waits at doctor's offices and a greater need for doctors.

I think this may be where I have been misunderstood throughout this thread.  I don't think I said Australia is BETTER than America...although of course I love my country for other reasons....I'm not politically keen on our Government at the moment however.

My original intent was to say that essentially America has spent a lot of money into living up to the " America is a super power" status.  I feel that money could have been spent elsewhere like on perhaps a more solid health system as an example off the top of my head.

I could also think of examples of where Australian Government could better spend their money also.

I have no idea why I have been called a cow, been told how bad Australia is, and all the rest of it.  I'm happy for discussion, but not narrow minded patriotism.  The comments I have made are written in a conversational tone, I don't see the need for being so agressive towards a general opinion. 

[Calandale]

My original intent was to say that essentially America has spent a lot of money into living up to the " America is a super power" status.  I feel that money could have been spent elsewhere like on perhaps a more solid health system as an example off the top of my head.

There's a problem with letting go of this though.
I just don't see it happening without something
terrible. I'm not at all sure why nations have to
put on the acts that they do, but I do have a
fair idea of the rules of the game.

[QuirkyCarla]

I didn't say there were no problems with the US healthcare system. (There are millions of Americans who are uninsured and many have to pay high copays.) I was just pointing out that Australia's isn't so wonderful. IMO no country seems to have a great system and everything is a tradeoff. In countries where everyone has access to healthcare, there are also longer waits at doctor's offices and a greater need for doctors.

I think this may be where I have been misunderstood throughout this thread.  I don't think I said Australia is BETTER than America...although of course I love my country for other reasons....I'm not politically keen on our Government at the moment however.

My original intent was to say that essentially America has spent a lot of money into living up to the " America is a super power" status.  I feel that money could have been spent elsewhere like on perhaps a more solid health system as an example off the top of my head.

I could also think of examples of where Australian Government could better spend their money also.

I have no idea why I have been called a cow, been told how bad Australia is, and all the rest of it.  I'm happy for discussion, but not narrow minded patriotism.  The comments I have made are written in a conversational tone, I don't see the need for being so agressive towards a general opinion. 

That makes sense. I never said Australia was bad though (not sure if that was directed at me or not); I loved it there and want to go back one day.

[Eclair]

I'm glad that eventually my intent was understood!

[Dexter Morgan]

It pisses me off that Bush spends so much money on the military when that money could be used for helping people in Africa and other nations that could use it. It is such a fucking waste...we could be helping people, but instead we're destroying them. 

Well at least he has tripled aid to Africa.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941_pf.html

[Christopher McCandless]

It pisses me off that Bush spends so much money on the military when that money could be used for helping people in Africa and other nations that could use it. It is such a fucking waste...we could be helping people, but instead we're destroying them. 

Well a least he has tripled aid to Africa.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941_pf.html

I wonder what strings were attached to that aid...

[Dexter Morgan]

It pisses me off that Bush spends so much money on the military when that money could be used for helping people in Africa and other nations that could use it. It is such a fucking waste...we could be helping people, but instead we're destroying them. 

Well a least he has tripled aid to Africa.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941_pf.html

I wonder what strings were attached to that aid...

Probably

[Calandale]

Nicely put.

[Christopher McCandless]

I wonder if these strings include an elastic band to pull the money back when the Africans attempt to grab it...