Calandale calls out Machine1

[Calandale]

Also, the fact that Alex didn't stand behind the mods over the whole Richard thing pisses me off, because that's led to members attacking the mods.  Like all those "Graelwyn-gate" and "Calandale-gate" emails (I don't know why the fuck Calandale, but he had his own thread).  I seriously was pissed because it seemed like the mods were just left hung out to dry for that.

I engineered that myself, in order to
take some of the heat off of grael.

[Calandale]

... but Graelwyn is using her position to solicit sexual acts from a sixteen year old boy, and that sets a bad example for the other members.

Using her position? No. I don't see that one bit.
No more than she would have as any other member.
They met through role-playing, essentially.

[Calandale]

Your banning, Scrapheap, irritates me, because you said a few things that were against the TOS, but usually people get a warning first.

Janicka, I never said or did anything against the TOS at WP, but I was banned anyway. I never got an email that explained why, except after emailing Alex a couple of times myself, asking him to delete my account and my posts.

And I'm not the only one.

You were obviously trolling.
One doesn't call a site a bad
soap opera otherwise. 

[Callaway]

Your banning, Scrapheap, irritates me, because you said a few things that were against the TOS, but usually people get a warning first.

Janicka, I never said or did anything against the TOS at WP, but I was banned anyway. I never got an email that explained why, except after emailing Alex a couple of times myself, asking him to delete my account and my posts.

And I'm not the only one.

You were obviously trolling.
One doesn't call a site a bad
soap opera otherwise. 

Odeon was not trolling, but the comparison between WP and a bad soap with the obligatory brain tumor was one of the funniest comparisons of all time. 

What he said was definitely not against the TOS at that time, although Alex has changed the TOS loads of times since then, so who even knows what it says now?

[Calandale]

Your banning, Scrapheap, irritates me, because you said a few things that were against the TOS, but usually people get a warning first.

Janicka, I never said or did anything against the TOS at WP, but I was banned anyway. I never got an email that explained why, except after emailing Alex a couple of times myself, asking him to delete my account and my posts.

And I'm not the only one.

You were obviously trolling.
One doesn't call a site a bad
soap opera otherwise. 

Odeon was not trolling, but the comparison between WP and a bad soap with the obligatory brain tumor was one of the funniest comparisons of all time. 

What he said was definitely not against the TOS at that time, although Alex has changed the TOS loads of times since then, so who even knows what it says now?

I just can't see why that would pull a ban.
I'm wondering if there was any prior history,
but it just seems too ridiculous.

Hell, I pulled a warning for being honorable.

[Janicka]

I've been a member of WP for nearly a year.  I just haven't been a mod very long, and I really don't pay attention to a lot of WP politics. 

Graelwyn isn't soliciting sex acts from anyone.  They've never met in person.  Anyway, 17 is the age of consent in the UK, and she's actually planning on meeting him in the UK when he turns 17 in a couple of months from what I understand.  Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal - probably because Graelwyn doesn't really act much older than a teenager herself.  I doubt that she could be in a relationship with someone her age.

it's 16, actually.

Yes..  Turning 17 in a couple of months would make him 16 now.   

[Janicka]

Your banning, Scrapheap, irritates me, because you said a few things that were against the TOS, but usually people get a warning first.

Janicka, I never said or did anything against the TOS at WP, but I was banned anyway. I never got an email that explained why, except after emailing Alex a couple of times myself, asking him to delete my account and my posts.

And I'm not the only one.

Yeah, I read some of your past posts.  I have no idea what you did other tha tell Alex he wasn't handling the whole mass de-modding very well by making it public.  And I'd have to agree with that.

There have been a couple of bannings that I simply don't understand - where the banned person seems to have either done nothing or done something that has gotten past members warnings instead of bans.  My main complaint is with people who complain about "overmoderation" or bitch and moan about suffering the consequences of violating the TOS (by which I pretty much mean flaming someone).  Like that Bizzare chick - she did nothing except post complaints about how mods handled people flaming (by removing posts, mostly) and how WP was discriminating against them.  Whatever. She really pissed me off, and I basically told her that if she's going to a moderated site, she needs to be able to deal with some moderation; if she doesn't like it, she should find a site that is NOT moderated.  Those are the type of people who piss me off. 

[odeon]

I fully respect moderated sites. If I choose to participate in one, I realize that I can't say or do anything I want to; I would prefer the moderators to follow the TOS as well, however. Of course, Alex banned me himself--a mod didn't do it--and I imagine that it was a desperate measure for him. He didn't know how to handle the situation at all.

The incident with reading other people's PMs destroyed whatever little credibility he had, and a lot of people called him on it. Then again, put pressure on a teenager and he will react out of proportion. That's what happened.

[Janicka]

That makes sense to me.  But the whole callout in this thread seemed to be about one particular mod's practices.  None of us have been given any specific instructions as to what's expected of us, other than a really vague mandate to stop spammers and trolls.  So, basically everyone is doing the best they can to interpret the TOS to the best of their ability.  It's been made worse by the fact that Alex hasn't supported the mods' decisions consistently, and has at times reversed what I thought was a reasonably valid decision by a mod.  The icing on the cake was that the original ban seemed to be self-serving because the member in that case (Richard) was attacking someone in the clique of mods that ended up banning him.  I'm not stupid, and I know that the type of insults that Richard was throwing around happen every day (it didn't help that Richard was drunk of his ass and having a meltdown at the same time) - but if you flame a mod like that, chances are that a mod will see it (DUH) and you'll have to pay whatever consequence for violting the TOS.  I don't think that was such a big deal.

So if the mods at WP want to have it out over their modding practices, fine.  We have a mods-only forum for that.  I don't think it needs to come here, and I don't think WP members need to necessarily be privy to it either.  If some members who apparently need a focus for their hostility (I'm talking about Bizzare, mainly) want to start threads about mods, I don't think it's appropriate for us to be questioning each other in those threads either.  We may as well come off as being somewhat united, since God knows that we're not going to have Alex's support.  As far as WP members are concerned I think it comes down to the fact that they agreed to be posting on a moderated site.  None of the current controversial issues have anything to do with Alex's past stupidity with mass de-moddings and bannings - it has to do with how current mods are interpreting their jobs and WP's TOS given the lack of direction.

As far as Richard goes, I'll say it again - I like him.  Richard's cool and he makes me laugh a lot of times.  But I don't think that the WP mods that tried to ban him were "out of control" under the circumstances like some people have said.

[Calandale]

So if the mods at WP want to have it out over their modding practices, fine.  We have a mods-only forum for that. 

There were two reasons for having it here.
One was that TM might have noticed that his
action directly contradicted an action which Alex
had taken, and he didn't want to mention it there.

The other was that maybe he would have earned some
respect here, instead of simply lurking this site for whatever
reason that he does.

He chose to hold the fight in the mod section.

[richard]

well yes im a handfull i know, you can have alex ban me janicka because i think yer totally right
id ask him myself exept he doesnt ever answer my pms and i dont email so..

still though a kid walks up to you and asks you out. what do you say?

[Janicka]

Richard - WP would be boring if you got banned. 

I was actually really sorry when they banned you, but I wasn't going to get into a debate over whether you deserved it or not. 

[richard]

i think i act so desperate over there because i dont have any friends, so i get hostile like its motherfucking 1992. so it makes me angry, plus i was physically&spycologically abused by my stepdad and i hate to see kids hook up with adults.

[Janicka]

Just limit your posting under the influence 

Kidding..  Seriously, I think that the problem is that certain mods don't understand objectivity in modding.  Usually you get a warning (or two or three) before you get banned for that type of flaming in the Haven.  Especially when it's not one-sided - you can be pretty evil, but only to people who've asked for it.  I thought that Alex was a total dick to the mods that banned you, because we really never had any clear instructions on how to handle anything besides obvious spam, and he's banned people for less.  But people have also gotten away with lots of things and really anemic warnings for worse.  I wasn't a mod when I saw the worse - otherwise I probably would have gotten involved.  I just think that banning you was an emotional decision from some really emotionally fragile mods that couldn't make an objective decision in the case.  They really should have asked another mod that was not involved in the first place to review it.  That would have been the best way to handle it, in my opinion.

Anyway, after all that drama (which has never subsided, by the way), I at least had the nerve to admit that I couldn't be objective because I didn't want you to get banned.  I would have understood if you did, though, and I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it. 

I'm really annoyed with Graelwyn at the moment.  She goes on and on about how she's been abused in the forums, but then does it herself.  I couldn't believe the latest thing that she did - which was attack Starbuline for 'cheating' on KBABZ.  She also said that she sent you a PM telling you what she thought about you...  I could use a little entertainment, since Paris Hilton is getting a little stale, so let's see it 

You should give yourself more credit.  You have lots of friends at WP (including me).  And there's a 14 page thread wishing you a happy birthday   

[richard]

well if you tell me how to do a "screenshot" i can show you what the pm looks like, actually theres 4 and there all hilarious/

she told me to watch my back because something was going to happen to me, i dont know weather to laugh/cry/or call the police.

and thanks for being my friend, i try to not get on wp now if im drinking