Another US shooting..

[Al Swearegen]

It is PRECISELY what I was saying and yeah, sure let's follow this argument. Are toddlers bad people?

Now we can discuss this in relevance to this:

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

I highlighted a couple of words.

Now have I said ONLY the mentally ill and criminals are responsible for ALL gun violence? No, I have not. Have I suggested that these measures will stop all gun-related death? No, I have said that the rates would plummet.

Lastly, have I ever inferred toddlers are bad people? Even once? Is this really a point you are arguing or is it something else? It looks like a strawman and a deliberate attempt to misrepresent and misconstrue. Is it?

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

It was actually saying that acknowledging that bad things will happen in society. Murders, rapes, assaults, fraud, theft...and bad people will do these things and will impunity and without respect for ANY restriction.

It's not what you started out with but sure, let's dismantle this one instead:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/?utm_term=.30def2356189

Bad people? Toddlers?

You have clearly missed the point. Background checks and mental health screening for toddlers before letting them  buy guns would prevent most of these shootings.

[Al Swearegen]

It was actually saying that acknowledging that bad things will happen in society. Murders, rapes, assaults, fraud, theft...and bad people will do these things and will impunity and without respect for ANY restriction.

It's not what you started out with but sure, let's dismantle this one instead:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/?utm_term=.30def2356189

Bad people? Toddlers?

You have clearly missed the point. Background checks and mental health screening for toddlers before letting them  buy guns would prevent most of these shootings.

Most of "which" shootings may I ask?

I mean MOST shootings are NOT committed by toddlers and MOST shootings are by people who are criminal and/or have mental health problems and so MOST shootings would be reduced considerably by taking guns away from(or not allowing them in the hands of)  people with criminal records or mental health problems.

Given this, what have toddlers got to do with ANYTHING?

If you are stuck, I will help you out.

I had mentioned that bad people will do bad things and will seek out doing bad things whether they are legal or not. (This has nothing to do with toddlers or the like).
I then said that bad people will do bad things and good people will do good things (Again this has nothing to do with toddlers)
I then made the proposition that whilst my early points on no new legislation would have prevented specific mass shootings and that gun free zones - if factoring in gun free zones like Chicago as an example - seem to show the gun control outrages are emotionally but of no practical help, I had some practical suggestions if people were actually interested in reducing incidences

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

Again...no mention of toddlers.

What of any of what I actually DID say are you confused about?

Still confused as to how toddlers came into the mix? I will help.
Though I mentioned toddlers not once, Odeon was unsure/strawmanning/confused or something about the role toddlers causing shooting in the US and how that factored in what I said. In short, it did not and as the quote mentions

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

A HUGE proportion of the deaths IS from these two groups. Huge proportion is not ALL deaths. Some of that remainder not included in the huge amount caused by people with mental health issues and or criminals, may be such shootings as accidents (including those by toddlers) and incidences when one is defending themselves or their property lawfully.

If you are making a point about reducing incidences of toddlers getting a hold of guns and causing accidntal shootings, maybe educating ignorant adults about gun safety may be a good idea in reducing it. Maybe you should suggest it. I will support this notion for you

So better enforcement of existing US laws, gun education and better mental health would cut doen many of the incidents

Oh and as a last point, just because Odeon says something it does not mean that you should climb aboard that train or that if he is disagreeing with me, that this makes his position strong. Trying thinking for yourself. It is awesome.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

That's a lot of words. I'm sure it was interesting.

I was simply referencing the killer toddler issue.

[Al Swearegen]

That's a lot of words. I'm sure it was interesting.

I was simply referencing the killer toddler issue.

What killer toddler issue?

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/?utm_term=.a47ec5591f3f

As previously shared by Odeon.

Toddlers with access to guns. Clearly there are some very bad toddlers around.

[Al Swearegen]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/?utm_term=.a47ec5591f3f

As previously shared by Odeon.

Toddlers with access to guns. Clearly there are some very bad toddlers around.

Toddler do have access with to guns sometimes, why does that make them bad? Shouldn't their parents better monitor them? 

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

If we take away toddlers' guns then only gangsta toddlers will have guns. Only a good toddler with a gun can stop a bad toddler with a gun.

[Al Swearegen]

If we take away toddlers' guns then only gangsta toddlers will have guns. Only a good toddler with a gun can stop a bad toddler with a gun.

I am not understanding why you believe toddlers are the only people involved in shootings?

In respect to people with criminal records and/or mental health issues

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

This does not say that there may be a small element of shootings involving people that are not mentally ill or criminals (or even toddlers if you like) or that the gun violence would completely disappear - it would simply plummet.

So what IS your point and how does that tie or detract from ANYTHING I said?

[odeon]

If we take away toddlers' guns then only gangsta toddlers will have guns. Only a good toddler with a gun can stop a bad toddler with a gun.

[odeon]

Minister of Silly Walks got my point, Al. You didn't.

[Al Swearegen]

Minister of Silly Walks got my point, Al. You didn't.

Perhaps you could explain it given what I HAVE said and not what I have not? (Far as I know I have not said a thing about toddlers being mentally ill or criminals nor making much mention of them at all).

[odeon]

Here's a different way of looking at the problem:

Between 1955 and 1975, the Vietnam War killed over 58,000 American soldiers – less than the number of civilians killed with guns in the U.S. in an average two-year period.

In the first seven years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,400 American soldiers were killed. Almost as many civilians are killed with guns in the U.S., however, every seven weeks.

Do read the rest of that page.

You might also want to read pages such as this one, on gun use for self-defence.

[odeon]

Minister of Silly Walks got my point, Al. You didn't.

Perhaps you could explain it given what I HAVE said and not what I have not? (Far as I know I have not said a thing about toddlers being mentally ill or criminals nor making much mention of them at all).

It's about your failed attempts at scoping the problem. That bad people and IRA bombings thing that I'm sure felt relevant to you but, well, wasn't.

[Al Swearegen]

Here's a different way of looking at the problem:

Between 1955 and 1975, the Vietnam War killed over 58,000 American soldiers – less than the number of civilians killed with guns in the U.S. in an average two-year period.

In the first seven years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,400 American soldiers were killed. Almost as many civilians are killed with guns in the U.S., however, every seven weeks.

Do read the rest of that page.

You might also want to read pages such as this one, on gun use for self-defence.

Read it all and even in this post, the take away is that of all the death by gun in 2010, 660 were accidental shootings of which some may have been ignorant and terminally stupid parents leaving their guns laying around for kids to play with. Presuming that bringing up toddlers was an attempt in some as yet misunderstood way of casting doubt or discrediting my premise that

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

So you would imagine EVEN IF toddlers were the whole sum of ALL 660 accidental shootings, then for any proposition that toddlers were included in this quote above, these numbers would surely need to compete with criminals or the mentally ill in equal numbers or similar to even cast my claim into doubt right? Rationally speaking.

So the total number of deaths from guns in 2010 (of which 660 represented the total amount of people killed in accidental shootings) 31,076. So in which rational way does your narrative about toddlers being part of a 660 number of which 31,076 is the total of deaths by guns, of which a HUGE portion is from criminals and the mentally ill, disclaim or detract or counter

Proportionally these people make up a HUGE amount of the amount of both mass shootings and incidental gun violence. So stop these people and the effect on gun violence will plummet without the majority of US citizens who are not criminal nor mentally ill.

Doesn't does it?