Perfection vs good

[Calandale]

Moving this here to avoid further clutter of the administrative board

That being some sort of fantasy that you have?
Never happened on any scale, never will, unless
humanity itself changes.

Would you then propose that no one ought to make an attempt at a fair system because perfection is impossible?

I don't know. Part of me desires that it all be perfect or it just doesn't matter. This isn't really the issue that was being
discussed, but it is an interesting one. Overall, that view is pure foolishness. But there is definitely something fairly strong
inside me that cries out for perfection, and is unwilling to accept less. Childish? Probably. But it may just be more noble not
to accept some kind of pitiful compromise solution to things. I guess it's why I favor death over trying to find some pathetic
existence that I can carve out for myself any longer.

[esme456]

Please don't talk like this!

I thought you were a happy person Cal?!

You are a very funny person and should congratulate yourself for that
- if you can make people laugh you have a gift

I think very much the same way in terms of either all good or all bad

I find it hard to appreciate grey areas

I put people and events in the 'good' or 'bad' category, which I know is stupid, but it can be seen as a way
of protecting yourself from people who have given you a problem in the past

ie if a person exhibits a type of behaviour I dont like, I tend to think 'Oh this is that type of person, don't like them!'
And if you maintain an internal database of people types like I do, you'd be amazed at how useful this can be as one type of behaviour is very often a predictor of a whole host of others, so you save yourself a lot of trouble

Please tell me why you feel so low?

[Calandale]

Happy? You must have seen almost nothing of me then.
I am a miserable wreck. Was such when young, spent
a significant portion of my life in idyllic bliss, ignoring all
that was evil, but now I'm back to my misery - but this
time a hell of a lot older, and with higher standards which
simply can't be met.

[esme456]

I'm sorry to hear that

I think perfectionism can be a good thing in that it can make you focus on inconsequential detail to the extent
that you aren't bothered about the 'big stuff'

For example, if I go to the supermarket and have to pick a lemon it can take ages as I have to pick the 'best' one

If it's a book it must be the least marked one - to buy a book with a fold on the cover would really bother me

Often after I've tried to find the 'most perfect' item and got home I discover a flaw and this really gets to me!

But while all this faffing is going on, I'm not worrying about the big issues like death, global warming, crime etc - in fact while global warming is obviously worrying I just cannot get that worked up about it and wonder if other people are really worried/caring about it either or are they pretending to be for effect/because everyone else is

btw I do try and be 'green' etc, I just don't 'care' on a day to day basis about global warming

Whatever, it's a big issue that is essentially out of my hands/not controllable by me so it ceases to worry me

So in this way I see AS/perfectionism as protective as it takes the mind off worrying about major stuff

The problem is when the perfectionism is turned onto the self, with constant rumination on negative stuff

I have recently read a book called 'Taming Your Gremlin', which I can't recommend highly enough as a way of learning how to dismiss the negative stuff from your mind

[Calandale]

Ah, but it's the major stuff that I insist upon perfection for.
If this world cannot be what I wish it to be, I would rather
destroy it. Unfortunately, I haven't quite figured out how
to do this. Even when very happily married, these basic
life tenants held for me. I just was less concerned with the
absolute need to destroy.

As to the small stuff, yeah, sometimes I'm a perfectionist too.
But, it's because I know that I'm not happy with less than the
best, and will choose utter misery over some half decent thing.

[esme456]

Hmmm

I find this hard to relate to

Can you give me an example of something 'big' that you feel isn't prefect enough?

[Calandale]

Existence.

[esme456]

But existence, by it's very nature can never be perfect

Surely you can see that is only logical?

It's far too random and chaotic

Have you read 'The Road Less Travelled' by M Scott Peck?

Another book I'd recommend

I think a major mistake people make is in expecting life to:-

a) be easy

b) be fair

c) go their way all the time

d) make them happy

Happiness/contentment comes from accepting life as it is and appreciating the good stuff when it does come along
ie it is an 'inside' job

[esme456]

Try breaking Existence down into stuff you have control over and stuff you don't

Then jettison the stuff you have no control over from your mind - why worry about what you can't change?

Stuff you can control - you can only do your best and that should be enough

To continually aim for perfection is self-defeating

[Calandale]

Nothing to do with my personal life (though the general belief holds true
there as well). I just don't see the point of a world which is not perfect
nothingness.

My life was good, easy, and damn near perfect, at one point. That made
it much easier not to get upset by things, but it never meant that I saw
this existence as better than the lack. I just allowed myself to be seduced by
comfort and love. Well, now I'm pretty certain that I won't have that opportunity
again. It was part of a bargain that I made, but I didn't really realize that I would
have to suffer for it. I assumed that my deal was forever.

[esme456]

The philosopher Schopenhauer is very interesting on existence

He says how can people possibly think life is meant to make them happy?

We are here to mate and die and that's it

Happiness is a random by-product, not the Holy Grail of life at all

I don't adhere to this idea totally but find it very useful for putting bad experiences into perspective

[Calandale]

Try breaking Existence down into stuff you have control over and stuff you don't

You're, of course, right. Unfortunately, I've never had the guts/force of will or whatever
to end what little bit of reality that I am. So, I'm forced to face existence, and try and
figure out how to end perfectly.

The philosopher Schopenhauer is very interesting on existence

He says how can people possibly think life is meant to make them happy?

We are here to mate and die and that's it

Happiness is a random by-product, not the Holy Grail of life at all

Eh, if that's all there is to it, I'd become an Epicurean, and fight against it.
I think that there's more, a perfect timeless nothingness.

[esme456]

(Hope you don't think im being patronising btw)

Expectign anythign to be 'forever' is also a fallacy

Another philospher recomends keeping the idea that good fortune can suddently change/things could go wrong
to mind, so that when bad fortune occurs you are more prepared for it

I used to think 'An atomic bomb could drop...now' as a way of acknowledgign the possiblilty

And I will sometimes think 'At this moment people are actually being murdered'

I see no reason whatsoever why you can't find comfort and love again if you keep looking

[esme456]

I also don't understand how 'nothingness' can be a good thing

Nothingness is nothing!

[Calandale]

Nothing is better than the best thing.