Whiter Islam?

[Teejay]

I get a feeling from various observations, Islam is a very weak religion and it will crumble in the long run. Christianity is much more adaptable with it's tradition of criticism and interpretation. Plus it is more appealing with the story of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

Right now Christianity is winning new converts everyday, (for example Korea has become 1/2 Christian in just a few generations, China's Christian community is rapidly growing), Islam's numbers are growing generally via population growth in existing Muslim communities.

I read something like 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year, they keep it secret to avoid reprisals from people they know and the authorities.

In the long run Christianity in some form will become the predominant religion of planet earth, Islam will decline and be restricted groups like the Sufi's. Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism will be just marginal religions compared to Christianity and any new age religions which come into the fore.

[odeon]

Wikipedia disagrees, somewhat:

Within the world's four largest religions Christianity currently has the greatest growth by numbers and Islam has the fastest growth by percentage.[24] Christianity is spreading rapidly in northern Africa and the Far East, in particular China and South Korea. Hinduism is undergoing a revival, and many temples are being built, both in India and in other countries. Analyzing percentage growth is a difficult matter - see this article for a discussion. However, the World Christian Encyclopedia and World Christian Trends reported these numbers from growth from 1990-2000[24][25]:

    1990-2000

        * 2.65% - Zoroastrianism
        * 2.28% - Bahá'í Faith
        * 2.13% - Islam
        * 1.87% - Sikhism
        * 1.69% - Hinduism
        * 1.36% - Christianity
        * 1.09% - Buddhism

(the annual growth in the world population over the same period is 1.41%)

However, a quick search on the 'net tells me that yes, some quote up to six million Muslim converts every year. But if you look at an average Christian, in the Western world, quite often that Christian is one only by name. Many are born into the religion but never go to church. Take me as an example; I'm probably a Christian in the statistics since I haven't bothered to leave the church--I was one by default.

[Tom/Mutate]

I live in a Christian family, and I've always wondered the discrepancy between what I hear in their news and media compared to the secular - ie thousands of people converting in these countries and thus life becoming better as they follow christianity and rely on help from western christians who apparantly do so much good there.  And these martyrs (ie- missionaries and their families who get killed overbroad) who never get mentioned in regular news.  Mind you, the christian news of these never seems to have any solid dates, places, times etc -seems more apocaphal.

[odeon]

It's interesting to note that the numbers quoted by Wikipedia are from Christian sources.

[McGiver]

i wonder what the percentage of peoples religious choices are because of forced religion growing up.

how many people actually adopt a different religion than their parents?

[odeon]

i wonder what the percentage of peoples religious choices are because of forced religion growing up.

how many people actually adopt a different religion than their parents?

I suspect most people adopt the religion of their parents. As for how much of it is forced, well, that depends on their culture. Islam, catholicism, and a few others are the kind of religions that require more, right from the start.

[Teejay]

Wikipedia disagrees, somewhat:

Within the world's four largest religions Christianity currently has the greatest growth by numbers and Islam has the fastest growth by percentage.[24] Christianity is spreading rapidly in northern Africa and the Far East, in particular China and South Korea. Hinduism is undergoing a revival, and many temples are being built, both in India and in other countries. Analyzing percentage growth is a difficult matter - see this article for a discussion. However, the World Christian Encyclopedia and World Christian Trends reported these numbers from growth from 1990-2000[24][25]:

    1990-2000

        * 2.65% - Zoroastrianism
        * 2.28% - Bahá'í Faith
        * 2.13% - Islam
        * 1.87% - Sikhism
        * 1.69% - Hinduism
        * 1.36% - Christianity
        * 1.09% - Buddhism

(the annual growth in the world population over the same period is 1.41%)

However, a quick search on the 'net tells me that yes, some quote up to six million Muslim converts every year. But if you look at an average Christian, in the Western world, quite often that Christian is one only by name. Many are born into the religion but never go to church. Take me as an example; I'm probably a Christian in the statistics since I haven't bothered to leave the church--I was one by default.

Well Muslims do have a higher birthrate than Christians, although birthrates in the Muslim world is declining. As I said earlier Christianity in places like Africa and Asia are winning over much more new converts from other religions than Islam is.

In the sharia penalty for Muslims converting to another religion is death, which explains why many Muslim converts to Christianity keep quiet.

[McGiver]

In the sharia penalty for Muslims converting to another religion is death, which explains why many Muslim converts to Christianity keep quiet.

certainly this is a misinterpretation.

surely they mean a spiritual death, rather than being physically put to death.

[Scrapheap]

You're all dead to me. 

[Peter]

In the sharia penalty for Muslims converting to another religion is death, which explains why many Muslim converts to Christianity keep quiet.

certainly this is a misinterpretation.

surely they mean a spiritual death, rather than being physically put to death.

No, they definitely mean that apostates should be physically put to death.

A. The Proof from the Qur'an for the Commandment to Execute the Apostate

Here I wish briefly to offer proof that will quiet the doubt in the hearts of those who, for lack of sources of information, may think that perhaps the punishment of death did not exist in Islam but was added at a later time by the "mawlawis" (religious leaders) on their own.

God Most High declares in the Qur'an:

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief -- Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12)[1]

The following is the occasion for the revelation of this verse: During the pilgrimage (hajj) in A.H. 9 God Most High ordered a proclamation of an immunity. By virtue of this proclamation all those who, up to that time, were fighting against God and His Apostle and were attempting to obstruct the way of God's religion through all kinds of excesses and false covenants, were granted from that time a maximum respite of four months. During this period they were to ponder their own situation. If they wanted to accept Islam, they could accept it and they would be forgiven. If they wanted to leave the country, they could leave. Within this fixed period nothing would hinder them from leaving. Thereafter those remaining, who would neither accept Islam nor leave the country, would be dealt with by the sword. In this connection it was said: "If they repent and uphold the practice of prayer and almsgiving, then they are your brothers in religion. If after this, however, they break their covenant, then war should be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity). Here "covenant breaking" in no way can be construed to mean "breaking of political covenants". Rather, the context clearly determines its meaning to be "confessing Islam and then renouncing it". Thereafter the meaning of "fight the heads of disbelief" (9:11,12) can only mean that war should be waged against the leaders instigating apostasy.[2]

B. Proof from the Hadith (Canonical Tradition) for the Commandment to Execute the Apostate

After the Qur'an we turn to the Hadith. This is the command of the Prophet:

1. Any person (i.e., Muslim) who has changed his religion, kill him.[3]

This tradition has been narrated by Abu Bakr, Uthman, Ali, Muadh ibn Jabal, Abu Musa Ashari, Abdullah ibn Abbas, Khalid ibn Walid and a number of other Companions, and is found in all the authentic Hadith collections.

[Litigious]

In the sharia penalty for Muslims converting to another religion is death, which explains why many Muslim converts to Christianity keep quiet.

certainly this is a misinterpretation.

surely they mean a spiritual death, rather than being physically put to death.

No. They mean it literally. "'Honour' killing" is literally meant as well, alas.

[McGiver]

does the koran say anything about their god being the judger of man?

[Litigious]

I haven't read it that much, but I think it does. Though I'm not sure.

[odeon]

Peter, Lit,

Ahmad Sa`d, an Islamic scholar, thinks
otherwise. Others share similar views, such as Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, another scholar specializing in Shari'ah Thought.

Here's a quote from the latter (but do read his entire comment):

Freedom of conscience is one of the fundamental rights of humans enshrined in the Qur'an; it is therefore, absurd for anyone to suggest that Islam allows putting people to death just because they convert to another religion.

Even a casual reader of the Qur'an will not fail to be impressed by its emphasis on the freedom of conscience as a cornerstone of its moral structure. To cite a few verses as follows:

[There shall be no compulsion in religion. Distinct has now become the right way from [the wayof] error: hence, he who rejects the powers of evil and believes in God has indeed taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way: for God is all-hearing, all-knowing] ( Al-Baqarah 2:256)

Your guys are more dramatic than mine, I'd say. They are Christians, however, not Muslims, and it seems that  they are modern missionaries to boot. They like the drama, it seems. Hmm... I wonder, who should I trust?

[McGiver]

trust your family.
no-one else.