I quit

[odeon]

It's so Trump can tell everyone how he took another necessary decision to protect the US...

[Phoenix]

I haven't been following any numbers outside of the US and Canada. The orange cheeto takes the stupidest shit to try and bolster himself.

[Walkie]

Huh. Covid-19 has even  infected Al's " Ï quit " thread. 

...and just when we were beginning to turn it into a cosy little leftist chatroom 

Anyways this little comment from DD got me thinking:

Reminds me of traveling in Canada and being amazed at how clean the trains were and feeling shame for my own county and how so many mistreat treasures like state funded transportation.

I mean, for a moment that made me wonder if America was actually enviable in this respect . But, no,  I looked it up, and it's just the same shoddy deal we have in the UK, since privatisation . In our case, public transport absorbs an awful lot of taxplayers money in the form of subsidies (about the same as in the  US) but that doesn't stop it becoming increasingly run down and  inefficient as well as increasingly  costly for the user . Outside London, almost nobody uses it unless they really don't have any other  choice; and the dwindling passenger numbers only make matters worse.  And that inevitably mean a lower grade of traveller on average, because aside from pensioners (whose local travel is entirely subsidised, in the form of free passes), schoolchildren (ditto)  and low-paid workers, you've still got all the drunks, crackheads, rowdy youths  etc using public transport, and becoming ever more conspicuous  by dint  of the absence of other groups  Plus,  now that we no longer have bus conductors (it's cheaper to get the driver to do both jobs) the antisocial behaviour on buses is almost totally out-of-control, and bus journeys are grindingly slow  It's a grim situation, created not by bad people so much as  bad political choices. .

Found an article online that neatly explains the difference between US and Canada:

https://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9118199/public-transportation-subway-buses

It seems you can improve things considerably  without opting for State ownership.  Japan has also done a pretty good  with subsidised private transport (but structured very differently than ours) .

 Still, most UK travellers are thoroughly disillusioned with privatisation, and want  to go back to a fully nationalised system . And that very much includes myself. Now that private transport is such a huge threat to the environment, I don't think we can afford to mess about. Investing enough in in  public transport to create a really  attractive and affordable alternative to travelling by car ought to be a priority. Once people have got themselves a taxed, insured, roadworthy car, then it's a damned sight cheaper, as well as as a damned sight more convenient, a damned sight less time-consuming and a damned sight more pleasant to just use the thing for every trip (at least here in Britain). Public transport has to up its game considerably to stand a chance of competing with that. 

[DirtDawg]

I haven't been following any numbers outside of the US and Canada. The orange cheeto takes the stupidest shit to try and bolster himself.

Think of it like this:   "M-m-m-MY Corona!!"

[Phoenix]

I haven't been following any numbers outside of the US and Canada. The orange cheeto takes the stupidest shit to try and bolster himself.

Think of it like this:   "M-m-m-MY Corona!!"

[DirtDawg]

I can not be the one to call it, but I feel I have ruined that song forever.

[FourAceDeal]

Huh. Covid-19 has even  infected Al's " Ï quit " thread. 

...and just when we were beginning to turn it into a cosy little leftist chatroom 

Anyways this little comment from DD got me thinking:

Reminds me of traveling in Canada and being amazed at how clean the trains were and feeling shame for my own county and how so many mistreat treasures like state funded transportation.

I mean, for a moment that made me wonder if America was actually enviable in this respect . But, no,  I looked it up, and it's just the same shoddy deal we have in the UK, since privatisation . In our case, public transport absorbs an awful lot of taxplayers money in the form of subsidies (about the same as in the  US) but that doesn't stop it becoming increasingly run down and  inefficient as well as increasingly  costly for the user . Outside London, almost nobody uses it unless they really don't have any other  choice; and the dwindling passenger numbers only make matters worse.  And that inevitably mean a lower grade of traveller on average, because aside from pensioners (whose local travel is entirely subsidised, in the form of free passes), schoolchildren (ditto)  and low-paid workers, you've still got all the drunks, crackheads, rowdy youths  etc using public transport, and becoming ever more conspicuous  by dint  of the absence of other groups  Plus,  now that we no longer have bus conductors (it's cheaper to get the driver to do both jobs) the antisocial behaviour on buses is almost totally out-of-control, and bus journeys are grindingly slow  It's a grim situation, created not by bad people so much as  bad political choices. .

Found an article online that neatly explains the difference between US and Canada:

https://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9118199/public-transportation-subway-buses

It seems you can improve things considerably  without opting for State ownership.  Japan has also done a pretty good  with subsidised private transport (but structured very differently than ours) .

 Still, most UK travellers are thoroughly disillusioned with privatisation, and want  to go back to a fully nationalised system . And that very much includes myself. Now that private transport is such a huge threat to the environment, I don't think we can afford to mess about. Investing enough in in  public transport to create a really  attractive and affordable alternative to travelling by car ought to be a priority. Once people have got themselves a taxed, insured, roadworthy car, then it's a damned sight cheaper, as well as as a damned sight more convenient, a damned sight less time-consuming and a damned sight more pleasant to just use the thing for every trip (at least here in Britain). Public transport has to up its game considerably to stand a chance of competing with that. 

I have to walk back some of the comments on UK rail travel.  Until a couple of years ago I was a frequent commuter on trains.  I find them better, more regular and many times cleaner than before privatisation.  Nationalised British Rail was a byword for shitty - when they were running between strikes.  They were literally a punchline to jokes.  People calling for the railways to be nationalised are generally not old enough to remember just how shit they were.

Long hall between large cities can be expensive, especially in and out of London.  That could be addressed to take traffic off the roads.  If HS2 gets finished and travel subsidised that could be nice.  It would remove traffic from the regional airports too.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

On the subject of privatisation and the state of the trains prior to privatisation: one of the cornerstones of neoliberalism is privatizing public assets.

Now it is difficult to justify a public asset or service that is in good shape and that people enjoy the benefit of. So first you need to defund the asset or service, demotivate the employees, get it to the point where people are calling for something to be done. THEN you sell it off to private capital.

Once you are aware of this you start to notice that it is in the process of happening in other areas.

[DirtDawg]

OK!  I QUIT!

No more humanity for me!

How in hell does building community awareness of instances of police brutality by protesting include destroying a Target store, many other stores looted as well, burning parked cars, overturning cars, bludgeoning old ladies in wheel chairs and hosing them over with fire extinguisher chemicals? So many other atrocities ...

It became a riot over in Minneapolis.
Talking about the four cops who allowed the death of a suspect due to the crushing of is neck for eight minutes.

Nothing good here.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Once it gets to that level, what you are seeing in Minneapolis, it's not protest.

It's people becoming so angry that social order breaks down.

There is an idea called "the social contract" and it's gotta work both ways.

Why are people so angry and what can we do about it? Tell people to be less angry?

Also I thought it was 3 cops who allowed the death. And one cop who did a lot more than just "allow" the death.

[Walkie]

I wouldn't be sure it was anything to do with anger, not without further info. to confirm.

There are a small minority of people (mostly young men) who get a buzz out of violent confrontation and will join any protest for the chance to provoke and take part in the violence.  I went to college with one of them. He cheerfully admitted to me that he didn't give a damn about any of the issues; he was there for personal gratification, simple as that.  I was stunned, because i'd never even heard of that phenomenon before; but I've certainly  heard of it, from any number of  sources, since.

I'm guessing there were probably a few like that guy invollved.  They should not be dignified with the term "protestor", not f we can possibly avoid it, nor confused with the genuine protestors. No use telling them that they're bringing shame on whichever movement they purport to represent.  They really don't give a damn. That  college "friend" told me  he didn't even care which of two opposing factions he joined,  he was that far from caring about social justice or anything like that.

[Phoenix]

There's video out that that one of the "looters" at an Auto Zone in MN is actually a cop. That happens a lot in situations like this. At the G20 summit in Toronto, they found out that it was people protesting who had burnt out the cop cars, it was the cops who had done it to make the public more sympathetic to their cause by blaming the people protesting.

[Walkie]

There's video out that that one of the "looters" at an Auto Zone in MN is actually a cop. That happens a lot in situations like this. At the G20 summit in Toronto, they found out that it was people protesting who had burnt out the cop cars, it was the cops who had done it to make the public more sympathetic to their cause by blaming the people protesting.

It's a pity that not-so-simple truth rarely makes front page news  and even when it does, it comes so long after the event that most  people already have a different picture permanently burned into their brains .
We need to teach kids to withhold judgement, from an early age, methinks .

[Phoenix]

Sorry - typo. That should says it WASN'T the protestors who burnt out the cop cars, it was the cops. My brain is mush tonight.

[Walkie]

^NP, i guessed you meant WASN'T. Shoulda thought to correct that when quoting you. Sorry!