Educational

Author Topic: "We need new ways of treating depression"  (Read 2900 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline renaeden

  • Complicated Case of the Aspie Elite
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 26106
  • Karma: 2534
  • Gender: Female
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2018, 03:46:29 AM »
Antidepressants must have helped some people or they wouldn't still be around.
Mildly Cute in a Retarded Way
Tek'ma'tae

Offline El

  • Unofficial Weird News Reporter of the Aspie Elite
  • News Box Slave
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 21926
  • Karma: 2615
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2018, 05:38:46 AM »
Antidepressants must have helped some people or they wouldn't still be around.
Tru dat.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Tequila

  • Elder
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2018, 10:45:20 AM »
Antidepressants must have helped some people or they wouldn't still be around.

They require consigning to history.

Read Ivan Illich's Medical Nemesis. It's available on PDF online. It will be a revelation. See "iatrogenic disease".

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Repair
  • *****
  • Posts: 108879
  • Karma: 4482
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2018, 11:43:09 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Tequila

  • Elder
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 12:13:14 PM by Tequila »

Offline renaeden

  • Complicated Case of the Aspie Elite
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 26106
  • Karma: 2534
  • Gender: Female
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2018, 09:07:23 PM »
Sometimes there is no reason for the depression, hence, no circumstances to fix. It's very hard to decide what to do then.
Mildly Cute in a Retarded Way
Tek'ma'tae

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Repair
  • *****
  • Posts: 108879
  • Karma: 4482
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2018, 01:26:25 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Tequila

  • Elder
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2018, 04:45:09 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.

You have the choice. I am in a newly mentally energised state of being - sharply zestful, even if I am not full of vim physically.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 04:48:22 AM by Tequila »

Offline El

  • Unofficial Weird News Reporter of the Aspie Elite
  • News Box Slave
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 21926
  • Karma: 2615
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2018, 05:30:17 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.

You have the choice. I am in a newly mentally energised state of being - sharply zestful, even if I am not full of vim physically.
I assume this is snark or trolling.

Hard to tell without interpretation, though, as this is legit what some people believe.

 :dunno:
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Lestat

  • Pharmaceutical dustbin of the autie elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 8965
  • Karma: 451
  • Gender: Male
  • Homo stercore veteris, heterodiem
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2018, 05:44:45 AM »
It seems to be a very mixed situation, without one single correct answer to give. It isn't as black and white as 'antidepressants work' or 'antidepressants don't work'

Rather, it seems highly dependent on how depressed  the subject is. And whether it is clinical severe depression, or great sorrow. There is a difference. People who are unhappy for a life-related reason, due to circumstances, don't seem to respond much more than placebo, if at all, whereas for the very severely depressed patient, who will be depressed even if somebody came over and waved a magic wand over their heads and set their life to be easy and in every way perfect in circumstance, such people can still be deeply depressed, even if not necessarily unhappy, at least bar due to the depression itself there can be much more likelihood of success.

When there is a biochemical basis to the depression is  when people seem to respond.

I was reading some meta-analyses (analyses of not studies, but the results averaged across groups of studies) yesterday, and here is what I came up with:

http://ahrp.org/jama-antidepressant-meta-analysis-reveals-22-years-of-deception/

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/directors/thomas-insel/blog/2011/antidepressants-a-complicated-picture.shtml This one is interesting, it makes a mention of the relatively new ketamine therapy, although their description of the effects only lasting days, contradicts every experience report from a firsthand patient and most other resources that I have ever read about it. Most say effects last months, at the longer end, and a good few weeks to a bit over a month at the short end. Although at least they got it right about the way it can help those with severe and treatment-resistant depression as a  maintenance therapy administered as single doses spaced far apart and do so dramatically, in a matter of hours, not the many weeks expected for SSRIs, IF the latter work, or the likes of tricyclics  (in the case of tricyclics, BTW it seems like clomipramine might be the best of them), and lacks the great danger associated with MAOIs, especially those of the irreversible type, which I have seen reports of categorizing them as some of the most effective of the antidepressants. Unfortunately there are severe dietary restrictions, some of them are hydrazines [hydrazine compounds, based off the parent compound hydrazine itself, N2H4, a highly toxic relative of ammonia, often used in rocket fuels, are often as not pretty toxic, and a hydrazine linkage in a drug usually makes for a covalent-binding, irreversible attachment of the drug to its target. Often pretty nasty little fuckers. Its a group usually avoided in drug design for that reason.]

And for someone who has an accidental violation of the dietary and medicinal restrictions with the older irreversible MAOIs especially, the results can be fatal, and even if not, then a really, really seriously unpleasant, traumatic way to get fucked over. And if the likes of serotonin syndrome or an adrenergic hypertensive crisis does kill someone, its one of just about the most unpleasant ways to go that I can think of.


Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Repair
  • *****
  • Posts: 108879
  • Karma: 4482
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2018, 07:00:38 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.

You have the choice. I am in a newly mentally energised state of being - sharply zestful, even if I am not full of vim physically.

Good for you. Can you also choose not to get the flu or are there limits to your miracles?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Fun With Matches

  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3515
  • Karma: 225
  • Delicious and refreshing.
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2018, 07:10:18 AM »
 :laugh:
:dog:

Offline Tequila

  • Elder
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2018, 10:41:39 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.

You have the choice. I am in a newly mentally energised state of being - sharply zestful, even if I am not full of vim physically.

Good for you. Can you also choose not to get the flu or are there limits to your miracles?

Medical intervention is actually a good deal of the problems we face today.  The medication and technological stuff they do is beyond belief.

I know it's old, but do yourself a favour and read Ivan Illich's book, Medical Nemesis.  It's online as a PDF if you search Google.  Ivan was an anarchist so he wouldn't mind about copyright and he'd be chuffed you read.

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Repair
  • *****
  • Posts: 108879
  • Karma: 4482
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2018, 01:42:48 AM »
I don't think it's that simple. Antidepressants are probably overprescribed but there are plenty of cases where they do help.

They mask the person's real problem - that they are deeply unhappy. Fix the reasons behind that, get them a positive attitude and you fix their predicament and they will enter a new life stage of lushly green sunny meadow. They will have a comprehensive and extraordinary transformation leading to an exhilarating new life.

Or not.

You have the choice. I am in a newly mentally energised state of being - sharply zestful, even if I am not full of vim physically.

Good for you. Can you also choose not to get the flu or are there limits to your miracles?

Medical intervention is actually a good deal of the problems we face today.  The medication and technological stuff they do is beyond belief.

I know it's old, but do yourself a favour and read Ivan Illich's book, Medical Nemesis.  It's online as a PDF if you search Google.  Ivan was an anarchist so he wouldn't mind about copyright and he'd be chuffed you read.

You didn't answer my question.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Tequila

  • Elder
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
Re: "We need new ways of treating depression"
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2018, 05:33:07 AM »
It's snark.