"We need new ways of treating depression"

[odeon]

A very interesting article, and I can't find anything I disagree with.

But it does make me wonder about conditions like OCD, where sertraline is effective. Is OCD really about a chemical problem in the brain or just the one case where the meds actually do work?

I'm much more inclined to believe most (or many, anyway) cases of OCD are chemical (if they're correctly dx'ed, which it sounds like yours was), than most cases of depression.  That's just based on my own observation, though, so no science behind it.

Yeah, I don't actually doubt my dx since I know for a fact what happens if I don't take my meds. It's just one of those articles that gets one thinking about alternatives.

[odeon]

Exactly who is supposed to be responsible for metaphorically getting these people a cow?

Metaphorically, society. The one that is currently prescribing pills.

So then doctors? Society isn't very exact; it does imply the general public should pick up the tab, which is all well and good.

I think the general public should, at least in any country with universal healthcare. It makes sense to me - the idea is to help return a productive member of society, not to push pills. A healthy population is a good thing in so many ways.

But I doubt that kind of village think will become widely accepted just yet.

[odeon]

Yup. Society wants you dead. The anxiety and depression is true, it's the truth. Quit fighting for a life that you can't have. Because let's face it, only you are to blame for yourself. Let the shame of being yourself rip you in half and maybe one day, just for once you actually achieve to do something about it. Being dead is one thing but pretending to be alive? Fuck off and fuck you for even trying.


Look after yourself, peeps. Because in the end, you can't and that's funny.

Let the love out. Don't be afraid.

['andersom']

It's weird that grief and sorrow is treated as depression so quickly.

Doing theology we did get a bit of psychology and someone working at a psychiatric hospital filled us in on some severe conditions.

But, what we learned was how to deal with grief, with sorrow, with sadness. And we learned to look for signals that people changed from sorrow, grief, sadness to a kind of mental getting stuck in the process. We were told that was the time to advice people to go and see a doctor.

Nothing unhealthy in grieving, sorrow, sadness.

Weird that from the medical point of view that is seen so different.

[Fun With Matches]

Yup. Society wants you dead. The anxiety and depression is true, it's the truth. Quit fighting for a life that you can't have. Because let's face it, only you are to blame for yourself. Let the shame of being yourself rip you in half and maybe one day, just for once you actually achieve to do something about it. Being dead is one thing but pretending to be alive? Fuck off and fuck you for even trying.


Look after yourself, peeps. Because in the end, you can't and that's funny.

Actually going to correct you on this. It’s not that they want you dead, it’s that they really don’t care. “You” as in the general sense, not you personally.

[Fun With Matches]

The point is that we live in a society that is lousy at helping people to be less depressed.

So bad, in fact, that we have people who are supposed to be professionals at helping people to recover from or deal with depression. And, in most cases, the treatment is limited to drugging the depressed person with a substance that, in most cases, doesn't work very well at all.

The point isn't "who is going to pay for the free cows?".

The point is that we need to recognise that other cultures are way better at helping depressed members of their society than ours is. And that kind of sucks. And we need to get better, and to recognise that we aren't really fixing depression with pills anywhere near as effectively as we think we are.

I was saying to my friend the other day, how there are all these values the media talks about, like anti-bullying, being there for a friend who has mental health issues etc. The media doesn’t mention much about those topics, but when it does, people will say they agree and chant out the values without adhering to them themselves. Most people think they don’t have any part in helping others.

There’s also a thing of people not wanting to be dragged down by other peoples’ depression, I think they might be afraid they’ll become like that person.

And yes, I don’t know anyone who has ever taken anti-depressants who wasn’t still depressed.

I notice stuff like adverts about cancer and children are given far more attention, I guess because like most charities they are money making businesses. Charity TV adverts are so manipulative and in your face, yet people go along with it and support them. I love dogs and even charity dog adverts make me roll my eyes. I wonder if they made mental health look so sad with manipulative, blatant and in your face advertising, if people would take more notice.

[Jack]

The point is that we live in a society that is lousy at helping people to be less depressed.

So bad, in fact, that we have people who are supposed to be professionals at helping people to recover from or deal with depression. And, in most cases, the treatment is limited to drugging the depressed person with a substance that, in most cases, doesn't work very well at all.

The point isn't "who is going to pay for the free cows?".

The point is that we need to recognise that other cultures are way better at helping depressed members of their society than ours is. And that kind of sucks. And we need to get better, and to recognise that we aren't really fixing depression with pills anywhere near as effectively as we think we are.

Wasn't even asking who should pay; just saying odeon's answer seemed to imply that. The discussion seems to be saying *somebody* should start getting these people cows. Am just trying to understand. It is being suggested that mental health professionals should be actively involved in bettering their patient's circumstances, in addition to medication and therapy?

[Jack]

Exactly who is supposed to be responsible for metaphorically getting these people a cow?

Metaphorically, society. The one that is currently prescribing pills.

So then doctors? Society isn't very exact; it does imply the general public should pick up the tab, which is all well and good.

I think the general public should, at least in any country with universal healthcare. It makes sense to me - the idea is to help return a productive member of society, not to push pills. A healthy population is a good thing in so many ways.

But I doubt that kind of village think will become widely accepted just yet.

Is it a bad thing that I don't want to be personally responsible for this other than my tax dollars?

[Jack]

It's weird that grief and sorrow is treated as depression so quickly.

Doing theology we did get a bit of psychology and someone working at a psychiatric hospital filled us in on some severe conditions.

But, what we learned was how to deal with grief, with sorrow, with sadness. And we learned to look for signals that people changed from sorrow, grief, sadness to a kind of mental getting stuck in the process. We were told that was the time to advice people to go and see a doctor.

Nothing unhealthy in grieving, sorrow, sadness.

Weird that from the medical point of view that is seen so different.

Grief, sorrow, and sadness can still be disabling to people's lives. Know someone who took meds short term after a spouse death. They were still grief stricken, but it allowed them time to get their life back on track without crying uncontrollably all day. Sometimes there simply is no cow.

[Queen Victoria]

Exactly who is supposed to be responsible for metaphorically getting these people a cow?

The cow is back. Rejoice, all intensians.

Jack feels butter already.

fixed

['andersom']

It's weird that grief and sorrow is treated as depression so quickly.

Doing theology we did get a bit of psychology and someone working at a psychiatric hospital filled us in on some severe conditions.

But, what we learned was how to deal with grief, with sorrow, with sadness. And we learned to look for signals that people changed from sorrow, grief, sadness to a kind of mental getting stuck in the process. We were told that was the time to advice people to go and see a doctor.

Nothing unhealthy in grieving, sorrow, sadness.

Weird that from the medical point of view that is seen so different.

Grief, sorrow, and sadness can still be disabling to people's lives. Know someone who took meds short term after a spouse death. They were still grief stricken, but it allowed them time to get their life back on track without crying uncontrollably all day. Sometimes there simply is no cow.

The moment it is so disabling, it is more than 'just' grief. It's one of the things we were taught to keep an eye on. And when we were told to tell people that seeing a doctor was the best thing to do. But still be there for them.

"Normal" grief can do without medical help. But there are always exceptions. Someone waking with a very ill child or spouse, wearing themselves out for months, may need medication just to finally sleep after their loved one passes away, for example. But in itself the grieving is a healthy process. And when it somewhere goes amiss, medication can be what is needed. It can go wrong in all stages of grieving.

The world around you accepting a thing like grieving may help too. When everyone wants to see everyone happy all the time, grieving becomes impossible. Sadness then becomes a burden on the people around you, instead of slowly adapting to this new life with someone missing dearly.

[mdagli1]

Just burry the grief inside you, no one cares that we want you dead. Let it bore a hole through you until all that is left is not you. At this point, there is only suffering. That is when you need to make a choice. To be dead or to pretend to be alive. I'm dead, now come at me bro.

[odeon]

Exactly who is supposed to be responsible for metaphorically getting these people a cow?

Metaphorically, society. The one that is currently prescribing pills.

So then doctors? Society isn't very exact; it does imply the general public should pick up the tab, which is all well and good.

I think the general public should, at least in any country with universal healthcare. It makes sense to me - the idea is to help return a productive member of society, not to push pills. A healthy population is a good thing in so many ways.

But I doubt that kind of village think will become widely accepted just yet.

Is it a bad thing that I don't want to be personally responsible for this other than my tax dollars?

No. People generally act out of self-interest, if at all.

[El]

There’s also a thing of people not wanting to be dragged down by other peoples’ depression, I think they might be afraid they’ll become like that person.

Which is not 100% unreasonable, to be fair.  Depends on your relationship with the depressed person and on each of your respective ability to have good boundaries, but other people's shit can suck you down, too.

And yes, I don’t know anyone who has ever taken anti-depressants who wasn’t still depressed.

I will honestly say I've seen people experience quite a bit of relief from antidepressants that they otherwise were never going to get; in many cases that relief is probably life-saving, even if it's not a complete solution by itself.  They're just not a one-size-fits-all panacea.

[El]

Exactly who is supposed to be responsible for metaphorically getting these people a cow?

Metaphorically, society. The one that is currently prescribing pills.

So then doctors? Society isn't very exact; it does imply the general public should pick up the tab, which is all well and good.

I think the general public should, at least in any country with universal healthcare. It makes sense to me - the idea is to help return a productive member of society, not to push pills. A healthy population is a good thing in so many ways.

But I doubt that kind of village think will become widely accepted just yet.

Is it a bad thing that I don't want to be personally responsible for this other than my tax dollars?

Probably nowhere near as bad as the fact that I feel that way a lot of days too, and it's literally my job.   

god I need a vacation