Trump

[FourAceDeal]

Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.

Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.

[Al Swearegen]

Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.

Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.

How wide?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/abc-news-issues-correction-trump-did-not-ask-michael-flynn-to-contact-the-russians-as-a-candidate/article/2642355

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

"The source said Trump phoned Flynn shortly after the election to explicitly ask him to “serve as point person on Russia,” and to reach out personally to Russian officials to develop strategies to jointly combat ISIS."

You KNOW Presidents reaching out to foreign leaders is fine, right?

Sorry but this looks suspiciously like nothing. There may be a something out there but this seems to have no legs.

Oh by the way, whilst you consistently try to infer MY reading sources are limited and the information is bad. In this case, it seems I was dead on the money with my assertions, doesn't it?

So now I will ask YOU the same questions. You refuted my claims, where do YOU get your reading sources from and how good are they?

[Calandale]

Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.

The Republican Party had a vestige of honor back then.


Don't delude yourself thinking that they won't allow Trump to become America's Mugabe. 

[odeon]

I very much doubt we know what "the best evidence" is at this point. Mueller is building this up very carefully. Again, give it time.

I am happy to wait. I like a good political trainwreck. Don't see it to be honest but out of interest what do YOU think the angle will be. I think the only one that really could hurt Trump is Kushner. I think Trump will protect him even if it is far from in his best interests. BUT I think Kushner is too weaselly to get himself into a position he will screw himself over.

If I was a betting man I would put odds on NOTHING too damaging coming out of the investigation for trump and ANYTHING coming out of it as dismissive as Pappadopoulous or Mannafort.

As you say, we will see.

Honestly, I don't know what the angle is going to be. I'd love to know. I know Trump is a deplorable human being and think that should be enough, but I know it's not. Having said that, though, the man is also a moron and he can't help but provide ammunition.

Time will tell. I hope it's going to be sooner than later but that's because he is a danger to the whole world, not just his country.

[odeon]

Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.

The Republican Party had a vestige of honor back then.


Don't delude yourself thinking that they won't allow Trump to become America's Mugabe.

I hope it's not going to happen but yeah, anything is possible.

[Al Swearegen]

Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.

Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.

How wide?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/abc-news-issues-correction-trump-did-not-ask-michael-flynn-to-contact-the-russians-as-a-candidate/article/2642355

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

"The source said Trump phoned Flynn shortly after the election to explicitly ask him to “serve as point person on Russia,” and to reach out personally to Russian officials to develop strategies to jointly combat ISIS."

You KNOW Presidents reaching out to foreign leaders is fine, right?

Sorry but this looks suspiciously like nothing. There may be a something out there but this seems to have no legs.

Oh by the way, whilst you consistently try to infer MY reading sources are limited and the information is bad. In this case, it seems I was dead on the money with my assertions, doesn't it?

So now I will ask YOU the same questions. You refuted my claims, where do YOU get your reading sources from and how good are they?

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?

[Icequeen]

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
9:14 AM - 2 Dec 2017

Basically he just tweeted that he "knew" Flynn lied to the FBI.
 
The man's a fucking moron.

Now he's ranting about "Crooked Hillary" again.
 

[Al Swearegen]

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
9:14 AM - 2 Dec 2017

Basically he just tweeted that he "knew" Flynn lied to the FBI.
 
The man's a fucking moron.

Now he's ranting about "Crooked Hillary" again.
 

Of course he did. Why else would he have told Comey to go easy on him because he was a good guy? None of this is new or news for that matter. I still say Flynn got a rough deal.
Don't think so? Hillary lied continually. To the Public. To the FBI. To Congress. No foul.

I absolutely think Flynn did the wrong thing. He ought not have lied BUT this has address NOTHING about what I said above and nor has it the slightest thing to do with the Russian collusion narrative that the ABC pushed yet again.

Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

I don't see it. I think the odds are that there is actually nothing. Certainly all the breathless Russia narrative that has swallowed up all the political discord is BASED on nothing (the fabricated dossier for example) BUT it is NOT to say that Mueller digging around may not find something with actual merit that DOES incriminate Trump and his Administration.

Bombshell after breathless bombshell comes to nothing. I want a little put up or shut up. Find the crime report on it, let everyone know but for these silly nothingburgers to be left well alone. Flynn lying to FBI is nothing to do with Russian collusion. Pappadopoulos a volunteer who sat on two meetings who did something ill-advised and unsanctioned is nothing to do with Russia collusion. Neither is Junior talking to some DNC funded Russian lawyer misrepresenting herself to talk about the adoption thing Russia collusion. Nor is Mannafort being a shifty snake who laundered money with the DNC associated Podesta group years ago Russia collusion.

Just want actual evidence without constant barrage from media saying "This is it. Trump will be impeached. Russia, Russia . Russia....oh wait it is not at all"

[Al Swearegen]

[odeon]

Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.

[Al Swearegen]

Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.

I was trying to paraphrase. Is this not the crux of your position? If not then let me know what nuance I missed?

[FourAceDeal]

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?

sorry.  I was out having fun.  Did you miss me?

I'll go as slow as I can so you can understand this first time round.

What you've done is mistake the outcome of a plea bargain with reality.  What happens in a "plea bargain" is that someone agrees to plead guilty to a much lesser charge in return for their testimony about other people on other charges.  So yes these news sites have clarified what the charge is. 

If you think, with your brain, yes Al, even your brain might make the leap...  If this is the lesser charge he has agreed to plead guilty too then there must have been greater charges.  See how that works Al?

If your viewpoint is that the charge as is is what the truth is, then I hold my line.  In the coming months it will be really funny watching you have to change your narrative to fit into what else is going to happen.

Did you get that or do I have to go over it again?

I'd spend more time explaining but to be honest I can't undo your lifetime of dumb in a few forum posts.

[Al Swearegen]

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?

sorry.  I was out having fun.  Did you miss me?

I'll go as slow as I can so you can understand this first time round.

What you've done is mistake the outcome of a plea bargain with reality.  What happens in a "plea bargain" is that someone agrees to plead guilty to a much lesser charge in return for their testimony about other people on other charges.  So yes these news sites have clarified what the charge is. 

If you think, with your brain, yes Al, even your brain might make the leap...  If this is the lesser charge he has agreed to plead guilty too then there must have been greater charges.  See how that works Al?

If your viewpoint is that the charge as is is what the truth is, then I hold my line.  In the coming months it will be really funny watching you have to change your narrative to fit into what else is going to happen.

Did you get that or do I have to go over it again?

I'd spend more time explaining but to be honest I can't undo your lifetime of dumb in a few forum posts.

I would ask you to review what you said, but seriously why bother?

You are making a new goalpost.

[FourAceDeal]

That's right Al.  I'm moving the goal posts. 

Meanwhile...  Manafort.  PopoGOPolous.  Gates.  Flynn.  Four people charged with links to Russia.  Now Mueller is within the inner circle and Flynn is singing.  It's going to go badly for some.

Why not tell us how you think this is all going to end?  We'll come back to this and compare in a few months time.

[Al Swearegen]

That's right Al.  I'm moving the goal posts. 

Meanwhile...  Manafort.  PopoGOPolous.  Gates.  Flynn.  Four people charged with links to Russia.  Now Mueller is within the inner circle and Flynn is singing.  It's going to go badly for some.

Why not tell us how you think this is all going to end?  We'll come back to this and compare in a few months time.

I think that none of these people really has much to actually incriminate Trump BUT the fact that each of these people has lied, money laundered and gone rogue doing stuff unsanctioned whilst not in itself incriminating Trump it has a larger effect.

It looks bad. These are people connected with Trump and THAT MAY have the effect of undermining confidence in Trump in the eyes of Congress. If people are waiting with baited breath for the revelation that Trump was in on some big Russia collusion thing, I think they will be disappointed. HOWEVER, the big question is does he NEED to be incriminated on this OR can the Democrats who hate him and the GOP establishment who also hate him, remove him from office because on the basis of such poor choices and bad actions from those around him?

There is actual merit in this argument. It would be a bit of a roll of the dice and I think he can avoid this but I think it has more merit.

There is another person you did not mention. Jared "Mr Perfect" Kushner. If ANYONE in his team is likely to bring him down, I think it is Kushner. I think Kushner is like Pappadopoulos but with more standing and authority. What is more, I think Trump will, if pressed, cover for him. I think Jared is used to doing what he wants and being seen as the mover and shaker and out of anyone in the Administration is the one most likely to have done stupid things or okayed stupid actions in a quest to be seen as a big player.

I also think at the end of the day, even Jared will get away with anything he has done but will make Trump look bad.

If I had to put odds on

60% It will all come to nothing
25% The end of the Mueller investigation will not incriminate Trump but will do enough to make him look bad enough to oust him
10% Jared incriminates Trump in something and brings down Trump
5% Flynn incriminates Trump in something and Brings down Trump

As the percentage says I neither think Trump has done anything that will incriminate him nor do I think he is going down. But I don't know.