I really can't believe you all bought it!

[Walkie]

Walkie, what role did I play in the closure of AFF? None. I was just an observer saddened by how events unfolded.

Sharing previous usernames. Is that a requirement here? Al seems to be doing just fine assigning defunct AFF usernames to current members on here, so perhaps he can give me one.

And I only need to observe current behaviour to see history repeating itself. No need to exhume the corpse of AFF. And, indeed, one of us is very likely wrong.

Gareth and Amy achieved far more for the recognition of neurodiversity than any of us can dream of. They have my utmost respect.

I was asking what role you played in AFF, not in the " closure of AFF.". Small but significant difference.  Like, suppose you were a Mod there, then I'd think "Ah! you were privy to info that most people wouldn't be privy to" and your opinion would accrue a bit more weight for that.  At the other extereme, suppose you were not even a regular participant, but somebody who came and went erratically, then your opinion would lose weighrt because you might easily have missed some imprtant developments, given that the forum took so long to unravel.   Look at it this way: you're asking us to accept your opinion over a bunch of contradictory opinions that have  posted on this site already.  "just an observer" doesn't quite cut it. That suggests you're impartial, sure (though we only have your word for that)  but it doesn't suggest that you know the story any better than anybody else does. You clearly think you know better, but you really need to back that up, somehow.

Of course, sharing previous usernames is not a requirenent, not here, nor anywhere else, but when people comment on some past situation, like that, they generally disclose such  identifying info as a matter of course.  And somebody who resists sucvh disclosure is bound to come under suspicion.   People wonder: : is this somebody that would denounced as an asshole, if they only knew who it is? You don't have to disclose a damned thing, but you'd potentially improve your case immensely if you did.

I can't believe that I've been drawn into explaining  explaining this. It ought to be flaming obvious. But then i'm a spazz , ofc and too easily drawn *sigh*

"One of us is likely wrong"?  excuse the nitpicking , but i said "one of would be wrong" if we leapt to conclusions based on "uncanny similarities" .  Can't speak for for you, but I'm still a long way dfrom reaching any firm conlusions, based on my "uncanny similarities" , I just think they're much better than your uncanny similaries .  That said, i haven't presented them yet, so there;'s literally no competition there.  My real point was "Let's not jump  to conclusions, eh?"

Gareth and Amy achieved far more for the recognition of neurodiversity than any of us can dream of. They have my utmost respect.

Well I think I've already pretty much agreed with that statement. Although I think it puts the "rest of us" down , when you put it like that. Other people hacve made great achievements in that field.  And what Gareth and Amy achieved ibefore they directed their attention to other things, leaving a rudderless forum to look after itself (by all accounts)  isn't terribly relevant to what happened next,  or who was responsible for that.  Don't get me wrong , that's not to blame Gareth and Amy, but to say that it ceased to have much to do with Gareth and Amy or their past achievements. It wasn't a shrine to  G&A but a living, breathing, growing  community, that went on living and changing in their absence.  And given that Al was instrumental in holding that rudderless ship on course, it's not all that surprisding that he (and a whole bubch of others") clashed with Amy when she reappeared and "threw her weight around" . It was bloody delicate situation, by all accounts,; it didn't need a clash betweeen two such personalities ( I think I'll let others mentally fill in the adjectives). Al suddenl;y went from being the right man in the right place, to being the wrong man in wrong place (supposing that tact and diplomacy were required) along with whole a bunch of others. Maybe Amy failed to appreciate that she owned an internet forum, not the community that inhabited that place?  That's how it sounds,  from some accounts; and heck she's surely a human being being, not an infallible  goddess.

Ofc, Al could try the partience of a saint, as we know, but it doesn't follow that the whole debacle was all down to Al.  Neither does it follow that I^2's problems are all down to Al, though he surely plays his part in making this board uncomfortable. Let's try to be fair to the man...and not only because it's nice to be fair, but also because being unfair is bound to make matters worse.  Al has a very low tolerance for that sort of thing, you know? As do a lot of people, especially aspies.

Oh! Btw,  I haven't noticed  Al assigning defunct uisernames from AFF to people. Maybe he does, but I think you might actually be looking at this: a lot of us just carry the same old username from board to board, and then suddenly decide to change it, once everybody's sure that name is set in stone.  Sometimes the new name sticks, sometimes it doesn't. eg most of us still call Round Hound Ozy, just because he's been Ozy since before AFF  or I^2 even existed, he signed up here as Ozy,  so that's how we naturally  think of him . A whole bunch of people have changed their usernames, past 2-3 years  and some others change usernames more often than they change their underpants; so we've all become increasingly resistant to those changes.

But I digress: it's your name that's the issue here. If you want to leave you past ID behind and swan around vbeing somebody else, that's fine. BUt if your going to criticise people, based on  things that your current ava never experienced, then peopkle are going to demand to know who you are , and quite rightly. There are aloads of good reasons why it's bad form to do what you're doing. 

For instance: Al suspects you're some old I2 member with a grudge against him , doesn't he?  He's not just being paranoid.  A lot of us have same suspcions.  For example, I  (and one or two otheras)  thought you were probably a former member  called Zegh , initially.

Now Zegh is somebody I'd be really glad to see return to this board, but I hope to God he stays out of this argument, becauuse the feud between him and some other members here  was really explosive, and the latterday feud between Al and Odeon pretty much grew out of that.  So, much as I liked Zegh, if you turned iout to be Zegh  hiding under an "impartial" p[ersona. I would personally feel sick to my stomach , and so would others . That would just be so utterly wrong and contemptible.

I changed my mind about that idea that you're Zegh, you might be glad to learn.  That's just an example, to make it clear why people are going to care to know who you are , and not only on AFF, but here too, if you've ever had some other ID here.

I said that one of theis boards problems ATM, is an awful lot of distrust and suspicion setting  in.   Now you've swanned in and set a whole bunch of alarm bells ringing haven't you? Not good. You could presumably allay those suspicions, and contribute to the heath of this community,  just by telling us who you've been .  But you don't want to? Why the heck not?   

[Al Swearegen]

Mischaracterising again, I see.

The fact of the matter remains that if I had closed down this place, you would have the main reason. You can't lie, misrepresent, or otherwise weasel your way out of it. You are a bully and you are toxic, to this place and most likely to others.

Interestingly that's also why I didn't, because there is no way I will allow a bully to win. And it's only because this is I2 that I didn't ban you. But do go on. Lie, misrepresent, embrace your toxic self. It's what you do.

Okay then what was all that BS then about needing to protect your family?

What threat have I EVER posed to your family?

Edit: But here is a really interesting point. Do you accept ANY portion of blame for the problems/issues/drama/tensions/toxicity in the forum or is it ALL mean old Al?

Do you think any of the insults said, the threats made, the mod tools used or dishonesty played ANY part? If so, what percent?

Curious? I mean when you run to " if you don't behave, I will pack up all toys and go home" (which threats, ultimatums and the like about the forum is) AND when you suggest that your family is in danger from words said by me on your forum - as a justification to strike back in any way to defend them from said threats, it looks to me that you accept 0% in things.

[Al Swearegen]

Walkie, what role did I play in the closure of AFF? None. I was just an observer saddened by how events unfolded.

Sharing previous usernames. Is that a requirement here? Al seems to be doing just fine assigning defunct AFF usernames to current members on here, so perhaps he can give me one.

And I only need to observe current behaviour to see history repeating itself. No need to exhume the corpse of AFF. And, indeed, one of us is very likely wrong.

Gareth and Amy achieved far more for the recognition of neurodiversity than any of us can dream of. They have my utmost respect.

No it is not a requirement but you are painting a narrative and asking us all to take on trust a lot. We would not mind you countering with more than hearsay because I have done that much and what I have shown from others including Gareth and Pikajedi backs to a large extent what I have said.

You on the other hand, come across as some perhaps with some knowledge of the forum and with an axe to grind, who picked their moment to when things looked like they were contained and even the AFF BS was winding down, to reignite things with what amounts to salacious gossip.

You are making a lot of big claims. I did the same but I backed mine with evidence. You are not even offering your username. You do not need to naturally but you come off worse for the result.

[Al Swearegen]

Just to add my tuppence; When I met Gareth I thought he was totally cool and open-minded. I used to speak to Gareth on MSN Messenger. Then he introduced me to Amy and I thought she was a total bitch. I thought Gareth changed himself in order to fit into her ways. I didn’t like who he became.

At least on the AFF chatroom, I thought everybody there were all nutters, and I thought Autistic Pride Day was a load of self-absorbed pretentious bullshit, and I’m really glad it didn’t become a thing. My ex used to troll the chatroom cos he thought they were all nutjobs too, and they were easy to wind up. I didn’t like AFF and what they stood for. Militant bullshit. Never went onto the forum though. Maybe it was like WP and the chatroom had a completely different crowd to the forum.

She was a bitch. I had some issues with Gareth too, not major ones. He was okay. There was a lot of vindictiveness and spite with Amy that just was not part of Gareth's character. The Chatroom was Amy's domain. It was moderated by her and friends of her's that were almost her equal. Poisonous nasty people. I found the same in WP chat from years ago. Having said that the membership on both was really nice.

[Genesis]

Just to add my tuppence; When I met Gareth I thought he was totally cool and open-minded. I used to speak to Gareth on MSN Messenger. Then he introduced me to Amy and I thought she was a total bitch. I thought Gareth changed himself in order to fit into her ways. I didn’t like who he became.

At least on the AFF chatroom, I thought everybody there were all nutters, and I thought Autistic Pride Day was a load of self-absorbed pretentious bullshit, and I’m really glad it didn’t become a thing. My ex used to troll the chatroom cos he thought they were all nutjobs too, and they were easy to wind up. I didn’t like AFF and what they stood for. Militant bullshit. Never went onto the forum though. Maybe it was like WP and the chatroom had a completely different crowd to the forum.

The chatroom had it's regulars, where the forum had theres... I tried using the chat a few times, yet all it ever did for me was just see a whole new environment

[odeon]

Blah blabber blab blah blabber...

Not interested. Go away.

[Al Swearegen]

Blah blabber blab blah blabber...

Not interested. Go away.

Don't like - don't read.
Words will hurt you less and you will be less inclined to run away from the site or use mod tools desperately.
Sticks and stones.

[Lestat]

Odeon, to respond to what you said about 'this isn't about science...'

And your having said 'This is not science, though, it's simply stopping a bully'

What I SAID, was that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary levels of proof'. Doesn't have to be applied in the sense of scientific investigation, but the PRINCIPLE is exactly the same. Its axiomatic, and general. I simply pointed out that I was familiar with the concept, through of course, unsurprisingly, the scientific principles I follow, the principle itself? that can be taken out of the context of science and transplanted neatly into this shit-flinging cretinfest of yours.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence if they are to be backed up convincingly. For something of that nature, the bar is set high. And you, odeon cannot seem to live by that. You set the bar high for everybody else (unless they agree with you of course in which case you wallow in sycophancy like a pig wallowing in its own shit; and come off smelling no better) But for everybody else, you expect them to prove their points to a standard much more demanding than you set for yourself.

So no, thats fucking dogshit odeon. Extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence. Demanding claims require thought out, properly constructed proof if they are to be believable.

Its time for you to step up and act like a man, and to hold yourself to the same standards as you demand from others. Whats sauce for the goose, as they say..

As for AFF..too militant? bollocks it was. It wasn't militant ENOUGH. We did have some good activists, like aliengirl...but we needed more like her. Wish kassiane had been there; because THERE is a lady who knows how to give the deserving a proper chewing the fuck up and shitting them out in a screaming skinless partly digested heap of curebie turd World needs more people like kassi and aliengirl. And then there was Ana54, her writing  was great. I'd have loved to see some of that put into action.

[Al Swearegen]

Odeon, to respond to what you said about 'this isn't about science...'

And your having said 'This is not science, though, it's simply stopping a bully'

What I SAID, was that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary levels of proof'. Doesn't have to be applied in the sense of scientific investigation, but the PRINCIPLE is exactly the same. Its axiomatic, and general. I simply pointed out that I was familiar with the concept, through of course, unsurprisingly, the scientific principles I follow, the principle itself? that can be taken out of the context of science and transplanted neatly into this shit-flinging cretinfest of yours.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence if they are to be backed up convincingly. For something of that nature, the bar is set high. And you, odeon cannot seem to live by that. You set the bar high for everybody else (unless they agree with you of course in which case you wallow in sycophancy like a pig wallowing in its own shit; and come off smelling no better) But for everybody else, you expect them to prove their points to a standard much more demanding than you set for yourself.

So no, thats fucking dogshit odeon. Extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence. Demanding claims require thought out, properly constructed proof if they are to be believable.

Its time for you to step up and act like a man, and to hold yourself to the same standards as you demand from others. Whats sauce for the goose, as they say..

As for AFF..too militant? bollocks it was. It wasn't militant ENOUGH. We did have some good activists, like aliengirl...but we needed more like her. Wish kassiane had been there; because THERE is a lady who knows how to give the deserving a proper chewing the fuck up and shitting them out in a screaming skinless partly digested heap of curebie turd World needs more people like kassi and aliengirl. And then there was Ana54, her writing  was great. I'd have loved to see some of that put into action.

Well said.

[odeon]

Odeon, to respond to what you said about 'this isn't about science...'

And your having said 'This is not science, though, it's simply stopping a bully'

What I SAID, was that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary levels of proof'. Doesn't have to be applied in the sense of scientific investigation, but the PRINCIPLE is exactly the same. Its axiomatic, and general. I simply pointed out that I was familiar with the concept, through of course, unsurprisingly, the scientific principles I follow, the principle itself? that can be taken out of the context of science and transplanted neatly into this shit-flinging cretinfest of yours.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence if they are to be backed up convincingly. For something of that nature, the bar is set high. And you, odeon cannot seem to live by that. You set the bar high for everybody else (unless they agree with you of course in which case you wallow in sycophancy like a pig wallowing in its own shit; and come off smelling no better) But for everybody else, you expect them to prove their points to a standard much more demanding than you set for yourself.

So no, thats fucking dogshit odeon. Extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence. Demanding claims require thought out, properly constructed proof if they are to be believable.

Its time for you to step up and act like a man, and to hold yourself to the same standards as you demand from others. Whats sauce for the goose, as they say..

As for AFF..too militant? bollocks it was. It wasn't militant ENOUGH. We did have some good activists, like aliengirl...but we needed more like her. Wish kassiane had been there; because THERE is a lady who knows how to give the deserving a proper chewing the fuck up and shitting them out in a screaming skinless partly digested heap of curebie turd World needs more people like kassi and aliengirl. And then there was Ana54, her writing  was great. I'd have loved to see some of that put into action.

Have a look at Al's post the last two or three years, Lestat. This *is* about stopping a bully and honestly, I care very little about what you think about this.

[odeon]

Blah blabber bluh blah...

I'm sure it was very interesting.

[Al Swearegen]

Blah blabber bluh blah...

I'm sure it was very interesting.

It was and he is right, you do not apply the standards you apply to others and want the impunity to mix it up with the members but have tools to win the arguments in the Admin panel. Redefine all you want but Lestat has you figured.

[odeon]

Blah blubber blah...

Again?

[Lestat]

Quote (assigned to Al, falsely attributed) 'blah blubber blah'

He did not say anything of the kind. If you think he's a bully, get out with it. You need to show your reasons, not just try and brush it off with disdain and contempt. Because that is pathetic, spineless and contemptible.

And he doesn't strike me as a bully at all. He says what he thinks and he sticks to it unless he is given a good, respectable  reason not to. You have just repeatedly attempted on many occasions to brush him off as irrelevant. Is it any wonder that leaves you with your pencil dick hanging out of your trousers, dribbling urine down your leg like an incontinent old man, gibbering shite like an alzheimer's patient somehow capable of retaining a grudge, only without the coherent sense they are so well known for making.

His points about wanting to mix 'equally' with the userbase, and yet still have recourse to using the admin tools to 'win' arguments you cannot back, are too lazy to back, is perfectly valid. Yet you try to brush it off with childish posting of barely even WORDS, falsely attributing said empty, meaningless guff to Al instead of engaging with his valid, fair point.

Sorry but you don't win arguments that way. At most you might be able to forcibly suppress one, but you'll never, EVER actually WIN one, using such base and cowardly tactics, you contemptible, pencil-dicked little boy.

*steps aside to avoid the rattle, bottle and dummy doubtless about to be thrown out of odeon's cot in one of his torrents of shyte*

[Al Swearegen]

Quote (assigned to Al, falsely attributed) 'blah blubber blah'

He did not say anything of the kind. If you think he's a bully, get out with it. You need to show your reasons, not just try and brush it off with disdain and contempt. Because that is pathetic, spineless and contemptible.

And he doesn't strike me as a bully at all. He says what he thinks and he sticks to it unless he is given a good, respectable  reason not to. You have just repeatedly attempted on many occasions to brush him off as irrelevant. Is it any wonder that leaves you with your pencil dick hanging out of your trousers, dribbling urine down your leg like an incontinent old man, gibbering shite like an alzheimer's patient somehow capable of retaining a grudge, only without the coherent sense they are so well known for making.

His points about wanting to mix 'equally' with the userbase, and yet still have recourse to using the admin tools to 'win' arguments you cannot back, are too lazy to back, is perfectly valid. Yet you try to brush it off with childish posting of barely even WORDS, falsely attributing said empty, meaningless guff to Al instead of engaging with his valid, fair point.

Sorry but you don't win arguments that way. At most you might be able to forcibly suppress one, but you'll never, EVER actually WIN one, using such base and cowardly tactics, you contemptible, pencil-dicked little boy.

*steps aside to avoid the rattle, bottle and dummy doubtless about to be thrown out of odeon's cot in one of his torrents of shyte*

Absolutely. What I see is that you frame yourself as a victim or as a defender/protector and cast me as the "monster" (whether a bully or bigot or whatever) and then any action taken against me is justified without needing to address anything said.

It may or may not be effective but it is hardly honest, moral, reasoned, reasonable, rational, or logical. In fact, it is dishonest, slimy, weak, pathetic and the refuge of the slug