The Tragedy in Las Vegas

[Al Swearegen]

I didn't say "a handful people". You did. Own it.

It basically is a handful of people wanting to undo the result of an election which had results they did not want. That is it.

Highlighting that for your benefit. Did you know that Trump lost the popular vote by a wide margin? Do you think they all want to keep him now?

Now, I said sticking to this false claim would be stupid. You replied by calling me stupid, which at once makes this personal again. do you try to pick a fight or is it simply that this, too, is a bit subtle for you?

You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.

You are picking a fight and yes I am more than happy to start up hostilities with you.

Now as to the context of my "handful of people" (which I have NO problem owning), 62,955,202 people voted for Trump. Assuming that the Democrats will vote in unison. That means any vote for impeachment or to vote him out by the suggestion of unverified and unproven psychological inability to fulfil his office.

So of 200 members of the, 100 Democrats are in the bag. They would not need 100 Republicans. They have 50% of the Senate and need 66%. So they would actually need 32 Republicans (probably the VP included) to sign off on that. Now of those Republicans, McCain, Justin Amash, Carlos Curbleo, Jamie Beutler, Mike Coffman, Brian Fitzpatrick, Frank LoBiondo are voting pretty much exclusively along Democrat lines.

So we are down to 25.

25 people could rewrite the election result voted by 62,955,202. So comparatively and in context with what I said....yes a handful of people.

Now you could be a complete idiot and say "25 is not a handful because a handful is only 5 or less. herp derp".

Try it and see how that argument goes. So going back to what you said:

You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.

I am and was always going to stick to what I said and YOU are calling me stupid and when I return the compliment.

which at once makes this personal again. do you try to pick a fight or is it simply that this, too, is a bit subtle for you?

Listen closely, you little worm. You are picking a fight and doing so passively aggressively and trying to pretend that I initiated it. YOU did and I have no issue in engaging. I was doing you and the forum a service by agreeing to end the hostilities. But it is transparent to me that not engaging in you niggles you enough to want to engage. You are just too chicken shit to admit to it and try to be a passive aggressive bitch and not own your own bullshit.

[Jack]

No one predicted these two candidates were close or anything close to close.

That's exactly what happened. There are several respected and credible polling agencies in the US and the results of those agencies reported Clinton leading the popular vote by a range of 1-4 points. The pollsters ranked the highest in the country for their methodology and historical accuracy still all have a margin of error ranging from 3-5 points and openly disclose this margin when reporting results. So anyone reading the poll results should have known the polls actually showed no clear winner, but rather a very close race. The real downfall to the potential accuracy of public polling is that people simply aren't willing to engage in them anymore. Less than 10% of the country participate in polls, compared to over 35% fifteen years ago.

[Jack]

I think Jack got it.

Yes, got it, and do think it's fair to refer to the 535 members of congress as a handful of people compared to the national population. Though disagree it's fair to say they ought not be the ones to vote on matters of presidential impeachment, or to suggest the majority of them would knowingly falsely convict the president of a crime he didn't commit.

[Al Swearegen]

I think Jack got it.

Yes, got it, and do think it's fair to refer to the 535 members of congress as a handful of people compared to the national population. Though disagree it's fair to say they ought not be the ones to vote on matters of presidential impeachment, or to suggest the majority of them would knowingly falsely convict the president of a crime he didn't commit.

Again, I understand what you are saying but I disagree. They hate him and to the GOP establishment, he is a barbarian who is seeking to take over and recreate the Republican party forevermore, in his image. To the Democrat Party he is the antiChrist. People like Max Waters and Al Green have been threatening to do it and keep hammering on it.

They would all consider it a moral choice and for the greater good. They would not view it as underhanded.

It will not happen though and the reason is that Republicans have to face their constituents. They have to hang in until at least the midterms. However, after the midterms, they will likely find that with Bannon's help the Trumpian/Bannonite vs establishment GOP Republicans will be more even and they will not risk any coup then. Trump will either die in office or get a second term.

[odeon]

"Listen closely?"

You did initiate this, with one passive-aggressive post after another. You know those "only an idiot would..." style of comments you spread around? Totally innocent, were they? The oh-so-innocent questions about me and whom I might have worked for, a mere public service for the board, right? After one taste of your bullshit and it's *me* calling you names, *me* starting this?

Fucking liar. Fucking spineless little creep.

After weeks of passive-aggressive insinuations, you now start to show your true colours. You were doing me a service? Fuck off, you little twat. Go hide under that bridge.

[Icequeen]

Manafort and Gates turn themselves in...now facing house arrest.

...and Papadopoulos admits he lied to the feds.

 

Who's next?

Place your bets.

[El]

I've heard plenty of people say Mike Pence is his life insurance. He doesn't have to outrun the bear, he just has to outrun his friend.

I used to think so, but it's not even a year in yet and I already feel like Pence would be profoundly better.  Seems like Trump's pandering to that audience anyway, and I don't think Pence would be as likely to send nukes off because someone pissed him off on twitter.  (At least Pence is lawful evil; Trump's chaotic evil, which is scarier in a world leader.)

And speaking as a Dungeon Master, a Lawful Evil player character is a hell of a lot easier to manage than a Chaotic Evil one.
Mike Pence as President would be a disaster, but Trump as President keeps looking more and more like it could be an actual apocalypse. The worst thing I expect Pence to do is to open up camps for the gay community, and even that's a bit far fetched.

At worst (realistically) he'd just overturn gay marriage and invest money into those fucked up "cure" camps. Mighty fucked up, but a lot less fucked up than causing World War III. Trump treats nukes like toys he can just throw out of his oversized pram. He's very far removed from reality.

I mean, Pence is far removed from reality as well but on a less dangerous scale. He's a bible-bashing sociopath kind of far removed from reality while Trump might as well have come from another planet where he already ruled it as a figurehead but other people did all the work behind the scenes without him knowing. Kind of like a boy king of sorts.

Trump is Joffrey, Mike Pence is the High Sparrow. He's a religious fuckwit, but he's not going to start any wars over his tiny penis and he somehow manages to treat women better than Trump.

If Trump isn't impeached I just hope WWIII doesn't start before Avengers 3 comes out. I have waited for the better part of my brief existence to see that movie (Iron Man came out in 2008 and Avengers 3 is next year). It might turn out to be shit, sure but that's a hell of a lot less disappointing than being reduced to a pile of ash before getting to see it.

And continue to work on eroding the rights and safety of women, POC and poor people, and to continue to try to turn the US into a theocracy (and based on the evangelical capitalist belief system, at that, which is one of the worst ones you could pick if you had to pick a religion to run the fucking country might I add).  But yes, since trump's doing all that shit anyway, Pence would at least not blow us all up over a twitter fight.

[Jack]

Manafort and Gates turn themselves in...now facing house arrest.

...and Papadopoulos admits he lied to the feds.

 

Who's next?

Place your bets.

Papadopolous is interesting. He was charged in July and plead guilty three weeks ago, but it was all kept secret because he was serving a 'proactive cooperator'. *stares at popcorn*

[Al Swearegen]

"Listen closely?"

You did initiate this, with one passive-aggressive post after another. You know those "only an idiot would..." style of comments you spread around? Totally innocent, were they? The oh-so-innocent questions about me and whom I might have worked for, a mere public service for the board, right? After one taste of your bullshit and it's *me* calling you names, *me* starting this?

Fucking liar. Fucking spineless little creep.

After weeks of passive-aggressive insinuations, you now start to show your true colours. You were doing me a service? Fuck off, you little twat. Go hide under that bridge.

But Odeon, you are a little grub.

I will admit that I am abrasive and when I use terms like "only an idiot would believe x" I mean it. I like things literal, concrete and non-abstract. When people are being coy and suggestive of things and inferring things without actually outright saying them, I prefer to cut through the bullshit. In this very thread, there were people saying a number of things about Trump, some with some merit and some without BUT there was a kind of a suggestion that because Trump has nuclear codes that this is a major issue. It was a lot of build-up to that suggestion and my claim of what only an idiot would believe is accurate. No one here does. It was simply ways to underline how "unfit" and "terrible" Trump was.

So my saying "only an idiot would believe x" is simply saying, "let's get rid of the bullshit and get to brass tacks. "What ARE you REALLY  talking about". I then helped out. I talked about what is understandable. What IS understandable? Many believe he has a terrible personality, that he is thin-skinned, speaks eccentrically, is unPresidential, is brash, is impulsive....and so on. That does not mean that World War Three or a big nuclear winter is nigh. In fact, his warring has been delegated to very effective war leaders who are proving very effective. Generals like Matthis. So the World War Three seems further and further away.

Saying "only an idiot would believe x" is NOT in this instance, saying anyone here is believing that. They are just having a little Trump hatefest.

YOU, however, did not mean it in ANY other way than "You believe x and so you are an idiot". So let's not try for false equivalencies, shall we? So, no "the taste of your bullshit", is dishonest as only you can be. Butthurt and dishonest.

But it is more than just butthurt and dishonest, isn't it, Odeon?

You did this BECAUSE I asked a question about what the Hell a seemingly random stranger posted on here. Something not ONLY I was curious about. Something YOU kept asking to explain myself over. Something I was happy to let die a death. Something you kept trying to tell me I cared about and something I have not talked about for about a week.

A week or o later you are picking a fight with that as your moral justification. You are not just butthurt and dishonest. You are a little bitch. This is grade schoolgirl cattiness. Hitch up your panties and get over it.

[Al Swearegen]

Manafort and Gates turn themselves in...now facing house arrest.

...and Papadopoulos admits he lied to the feds.

 

Who's next?

Place your bets.

So what I want to know and perhaps someone can tell me. Why the Hell is Mueller looking out of his scope as it relates to the 2016 election. Mannafort seems like a weasel and did some illegal stuff years before the election BUT THAT is not within scope of what Mueller is supposed to be looking at right?

Aren't we looking at Trump and his Administration colluding with the Russians and doing this specifically as it relates to the 2016 election victory? The premise I thought is that they won because the Russians colluded with them and allowed them to win the election, which they would not have otherwise done? That is what social media, mainstream media and the Democrats told us over and over again for 12 months.

I am sure Mannafort is a baddie. No doubt. I have disliked him pushing out Lewindowski, who I quite liked. I think anything he did bad he should be punished for. BUT is ANY of this stuff from before 2014 even relevant to the investigations?

Anyone else seeing goalpost moving or mission creep or some such. I am not trying to be funny here either. Charge him and lock him away but what has this got to do with the 2016 election? "Trump colluded with Russia which allowed him to win the 2016 election over Hillary", that is the charge, now let's see it.

[Al Swearegen]

I've heard plenty of people say Mike Pence is his life insurance. He doesn't have to outrun the bear, he just has to outrun his friend.

I used to think so, but it's not even a year in yet and I already feel like Pence would be profoundly better.  Seems like Trump's pandering to that audience anyway, and I don't think Pence would be as likely to send nukes off because someone pissed him off on twitter.  (At least Pence is lawful evil; Trump's chaotic evil, which is scarier in a world leader.)

And speaking as a Dungeon Master, a Lawful Evil player character is a hell of a lot easier to manage than a Chaotic Evil one.
Mike Pence as President would be a disaster, but Trump as President keeps looking more and more like it could be an actual apocalypse. The worst thing I expect Pence to do is to open up camps for the gay community, and even that's a bit far fetched.

At worst (realistically) he'd just overturn gay marriage and invest money into those fucked up "cure" camps. Mighty fucked up, but a lot less fucked up than causing World War III. Trump treats nukes like toys he can just throw out of his oversized pram. He's very far removed from reality.

I mean, Pence is far removed from reality as well but on a less dangerous scale. He's a bible-bashing sociopath kind of far removed from reality while Trump might as well have come from another planet where he already ruled it as a figurehead but other people did all the work behind the scenes without him knowing. Kind of like a boy king of sorts.

Trump is Joffrey, Mike Pence is the High Sparrow. He's a religious fuckwit, but he's not going to start any wars over his tiny penis and he somehow manages to treat women better than Trump.

If Trump isn't impeached I just hope WWIII doesn't start before Avengers 3 comes out. I have waited for the better part of my brief existence to see that movie (Iron Man came out in 2008 and Avengers 3 is next year). It might turn out to be shit, sure but that's a hell of a lot less disappointing than being reduced to a pile of ash before getting to see it.

And continue to work on eroding the rights and safety of women, POC and poor people, and to continue to try to turn the US into a theocracy (and based on the evangelical capitalist belief system, at that, which is one of the worst ones you could pick if you had to pick a religion to run the fucking country might I add).  But yes, since trump's doing all that shit anyway, Pence would at least not blow us all up over a twitter fight.

Big claims. Where is anything to back what you said? No seriously.
I remember the Religious Right too and they were poisonous. Not a lot of what Pence has said has given me pause over his thoughts on black people or POC, or women. He HAS given me pause in respect to something and that is some comments he has made about gay people. Even so, I do not know what his true thoughts are were he to ever be able to be President. Would he express his faith like the President, before sending all issues that in any way impact the community and fly against Christian sensibilities, to the states to deal with? Would he give the greenlight to pushing Christianity into public schools? Would he push for Roe vs Wade to be overturned, would he greenlight Gay conversion camps and how insidious would they be? How regulated? (I personally think the concept of a re-education camp is bizarre. A gay person is a gay person. You do not "re-educate" that. But if people want to set them up and confused self-hating gay people want to attend....I dunno....If they are not forced, then they are a market niche).

So with all of that, it says pretty much fuck all about the Progressive stack of oppression you cite. (I could be persuaded to him being anti-gay and anti-trans...perhaps) I know it is cool to lump in all minorities together and say "prominent Republican so therefore he is naturally bigoted, sexist, xenophobic, transphobic, homophobic, racist" without actually making a case for any of that AND is a female is a Democrat notable then she is very tolerant and not any of these things. I get it. Progressive talking point.

But Trump is no better on these issues? Really? What issues?

Big claims and no substance.

[Arya Quinn]

I've heard plenty of people say Mike Pence is his life insurance. He doesn't have to outrun the bear, he just has to outrun his friend.

I used to think so, but it's not even a year in yet and I already feel like Pence would be profoundly better.  Seems like Trump's pandering to that audience anyway, and I don't think Pence would be as likely to send nukes off because someone pissed him off on twitter.  (At least Pence is lawful evil; Trump's chaotic evil, which is scarier in a world leader.)

And speaking as a Dungeon Master, a Lawful Evil player character is a hell of a lot easier to manage than a Chaotic Evil one.
Mike Pence as President would be a disaster, but Trump as President keeps looking more and more like it could be an actual apocalypse. The worst thing I expect Pence to do is to open up camps for the gay community, and even that's a bit far fetched.

At worst (realistically) he'd just overturn gay marriage and invest money into those fucked up "cure" camps. Mighty fucked up, but a lot less fucked up than causing World War III. Trump treats nukes like toys he can just throw out of his oversized pram. He's very far removed from reality.

I mean, Pence is far removed from reality as well but on a less dangerous scale. He's a bible-bashing sociopath kind of far removed from reality while Trump might as well have come from another planet where he already ruled it as a figurehead but other people did all the work behind the scenes without him knowing. Kind of like a boy king of sorts.

Trump is Joffrey, Mike Pence is the High Sparrow. He's a religious fuckwit, but he's not going to start any wars over his tiny penis and he somehow manages to treat women better than Trump.

If Trump isn't impeached I just hope WWIII doesn't start before Avengers 3 comes out. I have waited for the better part of my brief existence to see that movie (Iron Man came out in 2008 and Avengers 3 is next year). It might turn out to be shit, sure but that's a hell of a lot less disappointing than being reduced to a pile of ash before getting to see it.

And continue to work on eroding the rights and safety of women, POC and poor people, and to continue to try to turn the US into a theocracy (and based on the evangelical capitalist belief system, at that, which is one of the worst ones you could pick if you had to pick a religion to run the fucking country might I add).  But yes, since trump's doing all that shit anyway, Pence would at least not blow us all up over a twitter fight.

America's fucked either way, but with Pence as President rather than Trump at least the chances of WWIII go down significantly. 

[Jack]

WWIII has been taking place for over fifteen years.

[Al Swearegen]

I've heard plenty of people say Mike Pence is his life insurance. He doesn't have to outrun the bear, he just has to outrun his friend.

I used to think so, but it's not even a year in yet and I already feel like Pence would be profoundly better.  Seems like Trump's pandering to that audience anyway, and I don't think Pence would be as likely to send nukes off because someone pissed him off on twitter.  (At least Pence is lawful evil; Trump's chaotic evil, which is scarier in a world leader.)

And speaking as a Dungeon Master, a Lawful Evil player character is a hell of a lot easier to manage than a Chaotic Evil one.
Mike Pence as President would be a disaster, but Trump as President keeps looking more and more like it could be an actual apocalypse. The worst thing I expect Pence to do is to open up camps for the gay community, and even that's a bit far fetched.

At worst (realistically) he'd just overturn gay marriage and invest money into those fucked up "cure" camps. Mighty fucked up, but a lot less fucked up than causing World War III. Trump treats nukes like toys he can just throw out of his oversized pram. He's very far removed from reality.

I mean, Pence is far removed from reality as well but on a less dangerous scale. He's a bible-bashing sociopath kind of far removed from reality while Trump might as well have come from another planet where he already ruled it as a figurehead but other people did all the work behind the scenes without him knowing. Kind of like a boy king of sorts.

Trump is Joffrey, Mike Pence is the High Sparrow. He's a religious fuckwit, but he's not going to start any wars over his tiny penis and he somehow manages to treat women better than Trump.

If Trump isn't impeached I just hope WWIII doesn't start before Avengers 3 comes out. I have waited for the better part of my brief existence to see that movie (Iron Man came out in 2008 and Avengers 3 is next year). It might turn out to be shit, sure but that's a hell of a lot less disappointing than being reduced to a pile of ash before getting to see it.

And continue to work on eroding the rights and safety of women, POC and poor people, and to continue to try to turn the US into a theocracy (and based on the evangelical capitalist belief system, at that, which is one of the worst ones you could pick if you had to pick a religion to run the fucking country might I add).  But yes, since trump's doing all that shit anyway, Pence would at least not blow us all up over a twitter fight.

America's fucked either way, but with Pence as President rather than Trump at least the chances of WWIII go down significantly. 

What WW3? ISIS?

[Lestat]

I doubt that donald bloody (or he might as well be) needs that much of a cause to start WWIII.

He'd throw his nuke out of the crib just because somebody weaned him from breast milk onto formula or changed his diaper using economy cost ones rather than brand named ones with pictures on them. If bush was co-president with god himself (according to bush, last I heard the almighty was busy telling Uriel to draft a 'cease and fucking desist, you failed experiment in lemur-design' notice to bush.) then trump is viceregent with Satan. And I think I know who wears the trousers in that relationship. And if he isn't ruling WITH Satan, thats only because he IS Satan