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Author Topic: The Tragedy in Las Vegas  (Read 19342 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #120 on: October 07, 2017, 06:08:20 AM »
This is not to say that the Left has no decent points or that some alterations or restrictions are not a good idea, I think they are BUT I CAN see why Conservatives feel they get little out of it and their reluctance.
The cake analogy is a bad one, because it's hardly as if citizens have only a sliver of the gun rights of the people of 1934. Don't even think it's about getting anything out of it. 911 and the so-called war on terror resulted in the NSA and the Patriot Act, and thus a number of new rights for the government along with restrictions on the population. There's no foundation that grants citizens any rights under these changes, so there's definitely a section of the population who feel their freedoms are under attack in the name of safety, and so balk when there actually is a foundation which grants them the right to not be treated under the assumption of being a criminal.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 06:24:23 AM by Jack »

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #121 on: October 07, 2017, 06:36:36 AM »
violent crime is primarily a male problem.
It's interesting this received no response, not even from Elle. There have been scientific studies conducted which conclude a link between violent crime and higher than average levels of testosterone.

I noticed you did not get any response on this. It is a curious event, not getting any reaction on that statement.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #122 on: October 07, 2017, 08:24:09 AM »
violent crime is primarily a male problem.
It's interesting this received no response, not even from Elle. There have been scientific studies conducted which conclude a link between violent crime and higher than average levels of testosterone.

I think it is a little more than that. Men have more testosterone and more muscel mass, thicker bone density and so on. We are physical beings and even as kids are instinctually driven to the rough and tumble. As a whole and as a generality.

Men, however, are socialised and have the drive to protect women and children. That is why we are collectively appalled when we hear of women being raped or beaten or kids abused by men. Not only have they broken a taboo but they have rebelled against the instinct of using our strength to protect. I consider it on par with eating shit, having sex with corpses or other abhorrent behaviours. The comparison being alike in the way that what we are both socialised and instinctually repelled from would generally mean that NO man would do these things BUT we know some actually do.

I think that high testosterone alone is neither here nor there. High testosterone and mental disorder or something weird going on with them and yeah they suddenly could cross the line to behave in ways that other males do not. I think it is rather they are batshit crazy AND if they have high testosterone then it is more likely that their bad will be something violent.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

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Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

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Offline Jack

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #123 on: October 07, 2017, 09:01:22 AM »
violent crime is primarily a male problem.
It's interesting this received no response, not even from Elle. There have been scientific studies conducted which conclude a link between violent crime and higher than average levels of testosterone.

I think it is a little more than that. Men have more testosterone and more muscel mass, thicker bone density and so on. We are physical beings and even as kids are instinctually driven to the rough and tumble. As a whole and as a generality.

Men, however, are socialised and have the drive to protect women and children. That is why we are collectively appalled when we hear of women being raped or beaten or kids abused by men. Not only have they broken a taboo but they have rebelled against the instinct of using our strength to protect. I consider it on par with eating shit, having sex with corpses or other abhorrent behaviours. The comparison being alike in the way that what we are both socialised and instinctually repelled from would generally mean that NO man would do these things BUT we know some actually do.

I think that high testosterone alone is neither here nor there. High testosterone and mental disorder or something weird going on with them and yeah they suddenly could cross the line to behave in ways that other males do not. I think it is rather they are batshit crazy AND if they have high testosterone then it is more likely that their bad will be something violent.
Defending and protecting people isn't a crime. There's no arguing that men have sociological pressures to be protectors, but if you'd like to discuss sociological pressures of being macho manly then discuss that with Elle. I don't think violent crime is fundamentally sociological. While the number of people who commit violent crimes small and the number of people with high testosterone is also small, there still has been established a correlation for violence with abnormal testosterone levels in both men and women, and society doesn't pressure anyone to be violent criminals. Your statements seem to suggest abnormally high testosterone levels don't make people bat shit crazy.

Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #124 on: October 07, 2017, 09:12:47 AM »
This appeared in the Times-Picayune today.  Thoughtful.

American can-do vanishes when the NRA check arrives | Opinion           By Robert Mann, Columnist

The instinct is common; the pattern is clear: When people die in accidents or from defective or faulty products, Americans are quick to assess the problem and work to prevent it from happening again. For instance:

Whenever a commercial airliner crashes and kills hundreds of people, we determine the cause and work to prevent similar occurrences. That's why airlines are the world's safest mode of travel.

On American highways, cars often cross medians and strike oncoming traffic. That's why many states, including Louisiana, erect barriers to prevent future crashes.

After decades during which more than 40,000 -- sometimes 50,000 -- people died annually on our highways, federal law in 1968 required automakers to install seat belts in new cars. By 1998, the government also mandated airbags in all new automobiles.

When someone tainted bottles of Tylenol with potassium cyanide in 1981, killing seven people in the Chicago area, it sparked a revolution in the packaging of over-the-counter medication and resulted in the 1983 Federal Anti-Tampering Act.

Following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the federal government dramatically increased security at airports and on airplanes.

A would-be shoe bomber tried to blow up a plane on a flight from Paris to Miami in 2001. Today, most U.S. passengers cannot board a commercial jet without removing their shoes.

After 32 infants died in drop-down cribs from 2000 to 2010, the federal Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC) banned the manufacture, sale and resale of such cribs.

In the 1980s, more than 6,000 people were injured in lawn dart accidents. In 1982, an errant dart killed a 7-year-old child in California. By 1988, the CPSC banned them in the United States.

Thousands of children once opened medicine bottles and died or became ill after they ingested the contents. Today, child-resistant caps are used for almost all medicine bottles and many other products, such as pesticides and other household chemicals.

Several dozen people, including children, died each year after being locked inside the trunks of cars. In 2001, the federal government required that all new passenger vehicles with trunks must be equipped with an interior release latch.

After scientists proved that second-hand cigarette smoke causes a range of health problems, the tobacco companies fought efforts to ban smoking in offices and restaurants. In spite of Big Tobacco's lobbying against it, many states and hundreds of cities have banned smoking in public places.

If it's a car accident, plane crash, deadly drug interaction, animal attack or botched hurricane recovery, we summon our outrage, muster our courage and dive into doing whatever it takes to eliminate or reduce the threat.

My major boo-boo.  Because of ads placed on the on-line paper I missed the rest of the opinion.  FWIW here is the rest (which I haven't read.  So sue me.)

There is one notable, scandalous exception.

Gun violence is the manner of death Americans seem willing to ignore. We meet other ways of dying with indignation and determination. But gun deaths? We shrug our shoulders, bow our heads and send a few thoughts and prayers to the victims. We mourn a few days before we move on, afraid to do what it would take to prevent future tragedies.

Why is that? What is it about guns that leaves us weak and our leaders feckless?

Perhaps it's the false choices the gun lobby brandishes to brainwash its members. The National Rifle Association (NRA) meets any effort to inject sanity into our gun laws with the same refrain: They are trying to take away your firearms.

The truth is Barack Obama was a boon to the NRA, which used the phony threat of gun seizures to increase its membership and for the manufacturers, who used it to sell more firearms and ammo.

The specter of gun confiscation is difficult to dispel because it's so irrational. Almost no one proposes to take away guns from law-abiding citizens.

Many meaningful, sensible gun-violence-control measures enjoy widespread public support, including universal background checks, preventing sales to mentally ill people, closing the private-sale loophole, mandatory safety features, outlawing cop-killing bullets and regulating the production, sale and ownership of high-velocity weapons designed only to kill as many people as possible.


No matter how reasonable the proposal in the wake of a mass killing, the gun lobby will try to smother it under a blanket of fear and lies.

The NRA has persuaded its members and many politicians that nothing can be done about mass killings. Forget the other tragedies and calamities we have addressed. Stopping gun violence, it seems, is an impossible feat for a great nation that eradicated polio and put men on the moon.

As someone observed on Twitter the other day after a gunman in Las Vegas murdered 59 people and wounded another 527: "American can-do vanishes when the @NRA check arrives."

Robert Mann, an author and former U.S. Senate and gubernatorial staffer, holds the Manship Chair in Journalism at the Manship School of Mass Communication at Louisiana State University. Read more from him at his blog, Something Like the Truth. Follow him on Twitter @RTMannJr or email him at bob.mann@outlook.com.

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2017, 09:50:41 AM »
violent crime is primarily a male problem.
It's interesting this received no response, not even from Elle. There have been scientific studies conducted which conclude a link between violent crime and higher than average levels of testosterone.

I think it is a little more than that. Men have more testosterone and more muscel mass, thicker bone density and so on. We are physical beings and even as kids are instinctually driven to the rough and tumble. As a whole and as a generality.

Men, however, are socialised and have the drive to protect women and children. That is why we are collectively appalled when we hear of women being raped or beaten or kids abused by men. Not only have they broken a taboo but they have rebelled against the instinct of using our strength to protect. I consider it on par with eating shit, having sex with corpses or other abhorrent behaviours. The comparison being alike in the way that what we are both socialised and instinctually repelled from would generally mean that NO man would do these things BUT we know some actually do.

I think that high testosterone alone is neither here nor there. High testosterone and mental disorder or something weird going on with them and yeah they suddenly could cross the line to behave in ways that other males do not. I think it is rather they are batshit crazy AND if they have high testosterone then it is more likely that their bad will be something violent.
Defending and protecting people isn't a crime. There's no arguing that men have sociological pressures to be protectors, but if you'd like to discuss sociological pressures of being macho manly then discuss that with Elle. I don't think violent crime is fundamentally sociological. While the number of people who commit violent crimes small and the number of people with high testosterone is also small, there still has been established a correlation for violence with abnormal testosterone levels in both men and women, and society doesn't pressure anyone to be violent criminals. Your statements seem to suggest abnormally high testosterone levels don't make people bat shit crazy.

I am suggesting that the reason people do batshit crazy things is because they are batshit crazy. I am suggesting that with people who are batshit crazy and have high testosterone, this can mean that the way they be batshit crazy is with violent acts.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #126 on: October 07, 2017, 11:31:01 AM »
violent crime is primarily a male problem.
It's interesting this received no response, not even from Elle. There have been scientific studies conducted which conclude a link between violent crime and higher than average levels of testosterone.

I think it is a little more than that. Men have more testosterone and more muscel mass, thicker bone density and so on. We are physical beings and even as kids are instinctually driven to the rough and tumble. As a whole and as a generality.

Men, however, are socialised and have the drive to protect women and children. That is why we are collectively appalled when we hear of women being raped or beaten or kids abused by men. Not only have they broken a taboo but they have rebelled against the instinct of using our strength to protect. I consider it on par with eating shit, having sex with corpses or other abhorrent behaviours. The comparison being alike in the way that what we are both socialised and instinctually repelled from would generally mean that NO man would do these things BUT we know some actually do.

I think that high testosterone alone is neither here nor there. High testosterone and mental disorder or something weird going on with them and yeah they suddenly could cross the line to behave in ways that other males do not. I think it is rather they are batshit crazy AND if they have high testosterone then it is more likely that their bad will be something violent.
Defending and protecting people isn't a crime. There's no arguing that men have sociological pressures to be protectors, but if you'd like to discuss sociological pressures of being macho manly then discuss that with Elle. I don't think violent crime is fundamentally sociological. While the number of people who commit violent crimes small and the number of people with high testosterone is also small, there still has been established a correlation for violence with abnormal testosterone levels in both men and women, and society doesn't pressure anyone to be violent criminals. Your statements seem to suggest abnormally high testosterone levels don't make people bat shit crazy.

I am suggesting that the reason people do batshit crazy things is because they are batshit crazy. I am suggesting that with people who are batshit crazy and have high testosterone, this can mean that the way they be batshit crazy is with violent acts.
Thanks.

Offline odeon

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2017, 02:28:01 PM »
Actually whilst this has been happening and I have been saying that between "come and try and take my guns from my cold dead hands" and "Ban all guns and if you do not agree with me you are complicit in murder of children", is some room for negotiation and that it is entirely possible for the respect of hunting, the castle doctrine and the ability for lawful citizens to have arms in case of a tyrannical government, whilst appreciating none of this needs weapons to be able to unleash hundreds of rounds a minute.

So I am interested in seeing the conversation around bump stocks coming out of this. This is the middle ground and compromise.

The "tyrannical government" thing is an excuse. A bad one at that.
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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2017, 07:09:25 PM »
I think what needs to change first is a mindset.

Yes, we need to purge the world of wrongthink.   :tard:

Quote
There needs to be a discussion about that 18th century piece of junk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery

Quote
It was never intended to be about the individual citizens's gun ownership,

Yes it was, it is clearly stated so in The Federalist Papers WHICH YOU HAVE NOT READ.

Quote
Of course, you can also embrace the fact that every now and then, a few dozen innocent people will die a senseless death. The upside is that your misconceptions will be allowed to remain intact and you can move on to vote about things like allowing silencers in public or whatever the fuck it was that they wanted to do.

Of course you can embrace a totalitarian police state that has the power to confiscate millions of guns deemed "too dangerous" by smug, pompous twits like odious. The upside is that your misconceptions about an authoritarian nanny state will be allowed to remain intact and you can vote about things like should the unwashed masses be allowed to watch whatever they want or is state run TV all they need.

Offline odeon

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #129 on: October 08, 2017, 03:02:13 AM »
Still waiting for you to quote the relevant federalist paper(s). In the meantime, I'll settle for this.

Take your time.
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Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #130 on: October 08, 2017, 12:57:33 PM »
I blame my testosterone levels on the beef and dairy industry.  :zoinks:
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Offline benjimanbreeg

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #131 on: October 08, 2017, 01:41:33 PM »
You'd have to be a special kind of moron to think that just guns were the problem.  We don't have legal guns in the UK but people get killed with knives, bats, bottles, fists and feet.  We can't ban all of those unfortunately  ::)  There needs to be some of sensible licensing I think, and try to meet both sides halfway.  Trouble is, this is very politically motivated even if some are too simple to see it.  All you have to do is see that most Democrats want to ban guns in the US but also like giving guns to organ eating Jihadis in Syria or Libya.  We need to make sure that not just any lunatic can own a load of guns but really must get down to the route causes. 
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Offline Jack

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #132 on: October 08, 2017, 02:11:14 PM »
Welcome back

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #133 on: October 08, 2017, 07:52:11 PM »
You'd have to be a special kind of moron

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Offline odeon

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Re: The Tragedy in Las Vegas
« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2017, 12:10:24 AM »
You'd have to be a special kind of moron to think that just guns were the problem.  We don't have legal guns in the UK but people get killed with knives, bats, bottles, fists and feet.  We can't ban all of those unfortunately  ::)  There needs to be some of sensible licensing I think, and try to meet both sides halfway.  Trouble is, this is very politically motivated even if some are too simple to see it.  All you have to do is see that most Democrats want to ban guns in the US but also like giving guns to organ eating Jihadis in Syria or Libya.  We need to make sure that not just any lunatic can own a load of guns but really must get down to the route causes.

Wanting to stop 59 people being killed and 500+ hurt within minutes is a political problem now? Where is that middle ground? 30 people killed, 250 hurt?
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