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Author Topic: Really interested how this one turns out  (Read 524 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Really interested how this one turns out
« on: January 15, 2016, 07:59:01 AM »
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/christie-blatchford-ruling-in-twitter-harassment-trial-could-have-enormous-fallout-for-free-speech

What’s believed to be the first case in Canada of alleged criminal harassment-via-Twitter is just a judge’s decision away from being over.

After hearing closing submissions Tuesday from Chris Murphy, who represents 54-year-old Gregory Alan Elliott, Ontario Court Judge Brent Knazan is expected to rule on Oct. 6.

In the balance rides enormous potential fallout for free speech online.

Elliott is charged with criminally harassing two Toronto female political activists, Steph Guthrie and Heather Reilly, in 2012.


Allegations involving a third woman were dropped.

The graphic artist and father of four lost his job shortly after his arrest, which was well-publicized online, and if convicted, could go to jail for six months.

These are astonishing repercussions given that it’s not alleged he ever threatened either woman (or any other, according to the testimony of the Toronto Police officer, Detective Jeff Bangild, who was in charge) or that he ever sexually harassed them.

Stephanie Guthrie, right, accuses Gregory Allan Elliott of harassing her primarily through Twitter.
Indeed, Elliott’s chief sin appears to have been that he dared to disagree with the two young feminists and political activists.

He and Guthrie, for instance, initially fell out over his refusal to endorse her plan to “sic the Internet” upon a young man in Northern Ontario who had invented a violent video game, where users could punch an image of a feminist video blogger named Anita Sarkeesian until the screen turned red.

Guthrie Tweeted at the time that she wanted the inventor’s “hatred on the Internet to impact his real-life experience” and Tweeted to prospective employers to warn them off the young man and even sent the local newspaper in his town a link to the story about the game.

Elliott disagreed with the tactic and Tweeted he thought the shaming “was every bit as vicious as the face-punch game”.

Until then, the two were collegial online, with Elliott offering to produce a free poster for Guthrie’s witopoli (Women in Toronto Politics) group.

As serious as the ramifications of a conviction could be for Elliott, so could they be dire for free speech online, Murphy suggested in his final arguments.

He said the idea that all it takes to end up charged with criminal harassment is vigorous participation in online debate with those who will not brook dissent “will have a chilling effect on people’s ability to communicate, and not just on Twitter”.

In fact, Murphy said that contrary to what Guthrie and Reilly testified to at trial, they weren’t afraid of his client — as suggested by both their spirited demeanour in the witness box and their deliberate online campaign to call Elliott out as a troll.

Rather, Murphy said, they hated Elliott and were determined to silence him — not just by “blocking” his Tweets to them, but by demanding he cease even referring to them even in making comment about heated political issues.

To all this, Guthrie pointed out once in cross-examination that feelings of fear, like all feelings, “develop over time”, and snapped that she was sorry she wasn’t “a perfect victim” who behaved like a conventional victim.

The criminal harassment charge is rooted in the alleged victim’s perception of the offending conduct.

The statute says if that conduct caused the alleged victims “reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety”, that’s good enough.

Yet Guthrie and Reilly didn’t behave as though they were remotely frightened or intimidated: They convened a meeting of friends to discuss how Elliott should be publicly shamed; they bombarded their followers with furious tweets and retweets about him (including a grotesque suggestion from someone pretending she was a 13-year-old that he was a pedophile); they could and did dish it out.

“They were not vulnerable,” Murphy said once. “They are very accomplished, politically savvy women. If they can’t handle being mentioned in the tail end of a political discussion (on Twitter), then they’re in the wrong business.”

Related
Christie Blatchford: Twitter trial of Gregory Elliott is becoming much like Twitter itself — shrill and uber-sensitive
Christie Blatchford: Twitter trial makes one long for a time when death threats weren’t so easy to make
Christie Blatchford: Alleged victim and accused in Twitter harassment trial cut from the same cloth
And, he said, of the meeting both women attended in August of 2012, to discuss how Elliott would be called out, “That was a conspiracy to commit a criminal offence … they were conspiring to go out and publicly shame Mr. Elliott.”

Murphy said the case was akin to “a high school spat, except it’s adults on the Internet”, and said it is astonishing that the court should be acting as referee in an online political debate.

“If anybody was being criminally harassed in this case,” Murphy told the judge, “it was my client, it was Mr. Elliott.”

That Reilly, who was anonymous on Twitter and who directed her own volley of hateful tweets at Elliott, should come “to this court and the police and say she’s being criminally harassed is an abuse of the system.”

Prosecutor Marnie Goldenberg made only the briefest remarks, and refused to provide Postmedia with a copy of her written arguments, saying it wasn’t her practice.

I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 09:08:16 AM »
Why do prosecutors even entertain the idea of charges in a case like this?  Could not the guy with the video game try and press charges on her based on what she did if he said if made him fear for his safety?

Quote
He and Guthrie, for instance, initially fell out over his refusal to endorse her plan to “sic the Internet” upon a young man in Northern Ontario who had invented a violent video game, where users could punch an image of a feminist video blogger named Anita Sarkeesian until the screen turned red.

Guthrie Tweeted at the time that she wanted the inventor’s “hatred on the Internet to impact his real-life experience” and Tweeted to prospective employers to warn them off the young man and even sent the local newspaper in his town a link to the story about the game.

Or for that matter Elliott go after her for harassment and defamation  for all the shit she has brought upon him ? If he is convicted expect this tactic to be used frequently.


 
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Jack

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 06:19:12 PM »
Thinking this has been posted before.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 06:43:58 PM »
Sorry, it may have. I did not think it had. I saw an update on it the other day (By update I think they simply set a date that he can be "put out of his misery"). It reminded me. I should have searched first. my apologies if I duplicated.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 06:46:16 PM »
Why do prosecutors even entertain the idea of charges in a case like this?  Could not the guy with the video game try and press charges on her based on what she did if he said if made him fear for his safety?

Quote
He and Guthrie, for instance, initially fell out over his refusal to endorse her plan to “sic the Internet” upon a young man in Northern Ontario who had invented a violent video game, where users could punch an image of a feminist video blogger named Anita Sarkeesian until the screen turned red.

Guthrie Tweeted at the time that she wanted the inventor’s “hatred on the Internet to impact his real-life experience” and Tweeted to prospective employers to warn them off the young man and even sent the local newspaper in his town a link to the story about the game.

Or for that matter Elliott go after her for harassment and defamation  for all the shit she has brought upon him ? If he is convicted expect this tactic to be used frequently.

Absolutely. It is like keeping two sets of books. What you can say or do to Guthrie, what can be said or done to Elliot. This WILL go all the way and will make or break the laws around freedom of expression. Either way, vague laws around it, in Canada will be qualified one way or another.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 04:31:33 AM »
I'm having truama issues after reading this. Thinking of suing.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 04:53:34 AM »
Thinking this has been posted before.
Think you are right. Don't know if the text was exactly the same, but the gist was.

I don't like the suing system.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2016, 05:25:23 AM »
I'm having truama issues after reading this. Thinking of suing.

I honestly think the ability to put on big boy or big girl pants and hardening the fuck up could go a long way to fix these issues
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2016, 05:49:15 PM »
Sorry, it may have. I did not think it had. I saw an update on it the other day (By update I think they simply set a date that he can be "put out of his misery"). It reminded me. I should have searched first. my apologies if I duplicated.
You're forgiven. :laugh:

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 03:13:51 AM »
Sorry, it may have. I did not think it had. I saw an update on it the other day (By update I think they simply set a date that he can be "put out of his misery"). It reminded me. I should have searched first. my apologies if I duplicated.

Anything for a decent postcount.  :zoinks:
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline odeon

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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2016, 07:52:29 AM »
I'm having truama issues after reading this. Thinking of suing.

I honestly think the ability to put on big boy or big girl pants and hardening the fuck up could go a long way to fix these issues

OMG, do you want me to cross dress? :GA:
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Re: Really interested how this one turns out
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 10:03:12 AM »
I'm having truama issues after reading this. Thinking of suing.

I honestly think the ability to put on big boy or big girl pants and hardening the fuck up could go a long way to fix these issues

    ALL my pants are big girl pants.  :M :P
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