Pope Francis: not having children is selfish

[El]

Pope Francis has chided couples who choose not to have children, saying the decision is a “selfish” act. The statement, made in his general audience in St Peter’s Square, will be seen as especially controversial in Italy, which has recorded a steady drop in its birth rate for decades.

“A society with a greedy generation, that doesn’t want to surround itself with children, that considers them above all worrisome, a weight, a risk, is a depressed society,” the pope said. “The choice to not have children is selfish. Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished.”

The address was focused primarily on the joy of children and their role in society. The pope recalled a childhood memory, when his mother was asked which of her five children was her favourite. “She would say, ‘I have five children like I have five fingers. If they beat one of my fingers, all five hurt. All of my children are mine, but each one is different,’” he said.

“You love your child because he is a child, not because he is beautiful, healthy, and good; not because he thinks like me, or embodies my desires. A child is a child: a life created by us but destined for him.”

He said there was a strong correlation between a society’s level of hope and its “inter-generational harmony”.

The remarks echoed his earlier comments on the topic of childlessness. Last year, he warned against the lure of a “culture of wellbeing” that can come when a couple does not have children and has the money and freedom to take nice holidays and buy a second home in the countryside.

“It might be better, more comfortable, to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog,” he said. “Is this true or is this not? Have you seen it? Then, in the end, this marriage comes to old age in solitude, with the bitterness of loneliness.”

“The joy of children makes their parents hearts throb and reopens the future,” he said. “Children are not a problem of reproductive biology, or one of many ways to realize oneself in life. Let alone their parent’s possession. Children are a gift. Do you understand? Children are a gift,” he added.

Last week, the pontiff said that hitting a child was an acceptable form of discipline, although it was important to maintain their “dignity” in the process.

The Vatican later clarified the remark, saying the pope did not endorse violence or cruelty against a child.

I would like to know who his lucky lady is, and when she is due.

[Arya Quinn]

The world is overpopulated and overcrowded, so I don't really see his logic 

[Icequeen]

I wonder if he wants to babysit?


The man needs to seriously put a cork in it.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Just when I think the pope is a closeted secular humanist, he goes and says stupid shit like this.   

[Gopher Gary]

"simple minded mouth-breathing provocateur" 

[odeon]

/shrugs

He fronts a religion that isn't known for its contraceptive measures.

['andersom']

He probably has to publicly balance his opinion that people should not breed like rabbits a  bit, to still get some credits with his curie.

It is about politics there in the Vatican.

[Arya Quinn]

Just when I think the pope is a closeted secular humanist, he goes and says stupid shit like this.   

He's still a lot better than the last Pope 

[El]

Just when I think the pope is a closeted secular humanist, he goes and says stupid shit like this.   

He's still a lot better than the last Pope 

I agree with both quoted sentiments.

I also rather wonder what he'd have to say about people like me who just plain *can't* conceive in the first place (I don't want kids anyway, but, still).  I'm on thin ice with the catholic church as far as personhood anyway because of the celiac, lol (men with celiac are actually kinda discouraged from becoming priests because communion wafers are made of wheat, which sort of amazes me).  And I mean first and foremost because I'm a woman, obviously (and then also because I converted to atheism years ago).

['andersom']

Just when I think the pope is a closeted secular humanist, he goes and says stupid shit like this.   

He's still a lot better than the last Pope 

I agree with both quoted sentiments.

I also rather wonder what he'd have to say about people like me who just plain *can't* conceive in the first place (I don't want kids anyway, but, still).  I'm on thin ice with the catholic church as far as personhood anyway because of the celiac, lol (men with celiac are actually kinda discouraged from becoming priests because communion wafers are made of wheat, which sort of amazes me).  And I mean first and foremost because I'm a woman, obviously (and then also because I converted to atheism years ago).

He would not see you guilty, he would feel sorry for you, I guess. And he most likely would rejoice in seeing you found other ways to help people in this world.

(You having a bed companion out of wedlock would be something he'd frown upon)

[El]

Just when I think the pope is a closeted secular humanist, he goes and says stupid shit like this.   

He's still a lot better than the last Pope 

I agree with both quoted sentiments.

I also rather wonder what he'd have to say about people like me who just plain *can't* conceive in the first place (I don't want kids anyway, but, still).  I'm on thin ice with the catholic church as far as personhood anyway because of the celiac, lol (men with celiac are actually kinda discouraged from becoming priests because communion wafers are made of wheat, which sort of amazes me).  And I mean first and foremost because I'm a woman, obviously (and then also because I converted to atheism years ago).

He would not see you guilty, he would feel sorry for you, I guess. And he most likely would rejoice in seeing you found other ways to help people in this world.

(You having a bed companion out of wedlock would be something he'd frown upon)

My bed companion has so much student loan debt it may never be financially viable for us to get married, even if we're together for years and years.  Marriage is a really major legal and financial decision.

(Not that he'd care, but, like, just sayin'.)

Though, really, I'm guessing the pope would also not approve of at least one of the drawers in the bureau next to my bed.   

He might also say I ought to look into adoption, which (realistically) I may or may not even be able to pull off if I wanted to.  If I went through the right channels and tried for a kid who was (for whatever reason) less traditionally "desirable" to prospective adoptive parents, I probably could, but I'm single, don't make a ton of money, don't have a lot of supports, and have oodles and oodles of issues.  I know I would not make a good parent, but I'm not sure that really matters when you're talking doctrine (or when you're talking adoption criteria, unless you're out-and-out saying so to the people you're working with).

[Jack]

talking adoption criteria

Is there even much of that around anymore? No one else has to meet criteria to have a kid.

[El]

talking adoption criteria

Is there even much of that around anymore? No one else has to meet criteria to have a kid.

No, I was mistaken.  They'll actually give babies to whoever asks for them, just like they're puppies at a pet store.   

[Jack]

talking adoption criteria

Is there even much of that around anymore? No one else has to meet criteria to have a kid.

No, I was mistaken.  They'll actually give babies to whoever asks for them, just like they're puppies at a pet store.   

Certainly some extreme circumstances might be indelible, such as criminal past. Was being serious and understood strict restriction of days of old were no more, as far as having to provide a Cleaver household to be eligible. Didn't think a single educated and employed individual would be in any way excluded.

[El]

talking adoption criteria

Is there even much of that around anymore? No one else has to meet criteria to have a kid.

No, I was mistaken.  They'll actually give babies to whoever asks for them, just like they're puppies at a pet store.   

Certainly some extreme circumstances might be indelible, such as criminal past. Was being serious and understood strict restriction of days of old were no more, as far as having to provide a Cleaver household to be eligible. Didn't think a single educated and employed individual would be in any way excluded.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/09/nsap/chartbook/chartbook.cfm?id=5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_the_United_States

There's a few different routes to go, and each have their hurdles.