Malaysia jet crashes in east Ukraine conflict zone

[odeon]

If the Russians supplied the separatists with missiles, yes, I do think they should be blamed. We're talking about shooting down a Boeing 777, a passenger jet easily distinguishable from a military plane. You don't even have to possess military hardware to recognise it as a civilian aircraft. You do need some basic training to know what to do with the destructive power you've been provided with, however, but if the Russians did provide, I bet they skipped that particular lesson. There was no time.

[bodie]

(if they did) They didn't supply it for the purpose of shooting down a passenger jet.  The 'misuse' was by the user.

If I sold a gun to someone who told me they would hunt with it, and then that person killed someone with it am i responsible?  I would likely feel an amount of responsibility,  but the person i sold it to would bear the brunt. 

[Jack]

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

[Gopher Gary]

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

You're weirdm. 

[Gopher Gary]

Aren't the 'mericans saying that there is proof?

Because what the Americans have to say about it is the most important part. 

[Calandale]

BBQ!

Well, you can't eat it raw!

['andersom']

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

All names were page wide in newspapers. The names of the passengers are known, identification of what body belongs to what name is another thing.

40 bodies have been brought to the Netherlands yesterday. It was impressive, a solemn ceremony, 40 coffins carried into hearses, massive row of funeral cars driving the bodies to where identification will happen. And that is only the beginning. More than six times as many bodies are still to come here.

[bodie]

Saw that.  All the hearses.  It was impressive.  Very dignified.

[odeon]

(if they did) They didn't supply it for the purpose of shooting down a passenger jet.  The 'misuse' was by the user.

If I sold a gun to someone who told me they would hunt with it, and then that person killed someone with it am i responsible?  I would likely feel an amount of responsibility,  but the person i sold it to would bear the brunt.

Of course the misuse was by the user, but the weapon provided was a bit more advanced than a gun and the targets a bit less obvious.

So let's consider the gun analogy. What if there was no obvious way to tell the difference between a deer and a human? What if the way to do it had to be taught to the user by the provider, but the provider had knowingly neglected to do it? In a best-case scenario, the seller might simply have been thinking that the risk wasn't all that great, but he might also have ignored the risk for any number of other reasons, including some fairly worrying ones. Money, political reasons, you name it.

Which is what I am talking about.

[odeon]

Aren't the 'mericans saying that there is proof?

Because what the Americans have to say about it is the most important part. 

The Americans *and* the Russians.

[Jack]

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

All names were page wide in newspapers. The names of the passengers are known, identification of what body belongs to what name is another thing.

Maybe just misread it then, and identifying bodies was the intended meaning. Haven't read a single article that appears to account for everyone on the plane.

[bodie]

I agree they should share a proportionate amount of blame.  International sanctions is one way.  However an awful lot of other countries have done similar things, including UK.

I think it will, inevitably be a warning to all countries to think about who they supply weapons to.   

[odeon]

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

All names were page wide in newspapers. The names of the passengers are known, identification of what body belongs to what name is another thing.

Maybe just misread it then, and identifying bodies was the intended meaning. Haven't read a single article that appears to account for everyone on the plane.

I think the passenger list is undisputed. The plane wouldn't have been allowed to leave otherwise.

[odeon]

I agree they should share a proportionate amount of blame.  International sanctions is one way.  However an awful lot of other countries have done similar things, including UK.

I think it will, inevitably be a warning to all countries to think about who they supply weapons to.

One may hope. Realistically, however, next week's headlines will probably drown the public outcry and nothing will change.

[Jack]

It's weirdm a week later, over 40 of the passengers haven't been identified. What sort of airline are those people running if they don't even know who's on the plane?

All names were page wide in newspapers. The names of the passengers are known, identification of what body belongs to what name is another thing.

Maybe just misread it then, and identifying bodies was the intended meaning. Haven't read a single article that appears to account for everyone on the plane.

I think the passenger list is undisputed. The plane wouldn't have been allowed to leave otherwise.

That makes sense.