Malaysia jet crashes in east Ukraine conflict zone

[Jack]

I only hope there will be justice for this evil deed.

Probably wont be.

[ZEGH8578]

?

nice graph but Why in the name of Fuck are these images ALWAYS sized down!? I don't care about bandwidth or whatever concern they might be fearing from a jpg 2 cms bigger than another, what's their problem, is it fashion? Peer pressure? Why!?

As soon as text is readable, some ass comes crashing through the window to re-size it "THERE!!! Now it's difficult to read the captions! In fact, crop it, so that it becomes slightly more incomplete! MY JOB HERE IS DONE!!!"

[RageBeoulve]

I sniped it off facebook. They always size em down for some damn reason.

[ZEGH8578]

worst is conceptual maps, with captions - where the whole point is what each explanative caption says, and its like
bla da herpy derp, very informative meng!

The reason it pisses me off is cus it shows an attitude of "SURELY :0" "SURELY nobody cares!" "SURELY this is boring bla-bla-bla to everyone else, like it is to me!" "SURELY this map is full of confusing colors and borders, very complicated, SURELY nobody else will understand it either, regardless of text!"

"SURELY nobody out there can comprehend more than I can!"

I remember back in the day
when I grew up
I took for granted that _EVERYONE_ knew more than I did.

Those were the days!

['andersom']

I only hope there will be justice for this evil deed.

Probably wont be.

Will be a political game I think.

And justice, that would mean getting the four who operated the shooting down. The ones who backed them up and the looters. So, few looters, as a token of justice?

Lots of civilians in the separatist area are traumatised by the dropping of people from the skies. And deeply upset and grieving with the relatives of the killed passengers.

[bodie]

The plane crashes that i have known about, worldwide, have always led to whatever country doing all it can to repatriate the dead and be considerate to those who have lost loved ones.

I have never known a situation like this before.   Currently there are a number of bodies on board a train.  The train won't leave because Russian separatists won't let it.

It is hard to tell if Putin is doing all he can.  The world has been quick to point a finger, myself included.   It is possible the rocket launcher used to shoot down the plane was taken by the separatists from a Ukraine military base.  There is no evidence proving it was gifted from Russia. 

The more i see of these Russian Separatists the more i wonder if they are controllable by Putin.  They seem so out of order.  They are lacking integrity, and the humanity that we normally see when innocent lives are lost.  These poor souls,  a hundred of them just children were not enemies of the separatists, or Russia.   There are many elements to this crash site, and a need for investigations, but this is the human side -  allowing people to have proper funerals.   Not allowing this is just amplifying the suffering.

[ZEGH8578]

Bodie, the pro-russians are not guided by Russia, they are far too incompetent for that.

What is true, is that in the initial stages of this, they were heavily supplied. There were also a lot of actual Russian fighters there - elite fighters - people who knew what they were doing, such as the "Cossacks" who fought Chechen rebels for years and years. Hardened warriors.

Now, here is a thought for you: Notice how quickly we all let Crimea go. See?
This was never about Russia occupying eastern Ukraine, but Crimea. Causing, fueling, supplying rebellion in eastern Ukraine is a diversion. Now, you may want to refuse to accept that diversions exist in reality, many people do "surely, no nation would do something that complex, that cynical!" - either way, the situation works _perfectly_ as a diversion.

The rebels are basically derping around, they "won ground" by simply TELLING Ukrainian police etc to fuck off, and they did fuck off at the time, cus they thought the rebels had the Russian Army behind them. They didn't.
Ukraine finally cought on, and are now steamrolling the rebels, sending actual proper military, aerial bombardment, artillery shelling, tanks, APCs, special forces, etc etc, the rebels are being pounded to shit.

What's even MORE convenient (for Russia) is that Ukraine will be quite busy with their eastern region for years and years to come - too much blood has been spilled, people hate each others now, there is armed separatism, bad blood, vengeance, etc. To go back to prioritize Crimea will be a huge waste of effort, from now on and decades to come.

The rebels still have Russian ties, and quite possibly light supplies, but it seems like Russia is "phasing out" their direct involvement there. (There are still Russian volunteer fighters, nationalists, etc)

[bodie]

Yes i can see your point.  I think Putin also enjoys to play the game "guess how much Russia is backing the separatists?"   he just basks in the limelight.

I think if he had such tight control over them he would have seen to it that those bodies were on the way home by now.  He could have looked the hero he likes to be.

I just want to say about reports of bodies been dragged around fields in an undignified manner.  I have not seen this.  I saw two farmers/locals moving a body in a body bag and then it was lifted on the back of a truck.  One man was at least 6ft while the other was possibly a youth, very much smaller.  The removal was as dignified as it could possibly have been.  There was no hearse and no one in top hat and tails.  These things are normally not televised but the unique nature of this tragedy means it was.   The dead have never,  to my knowledge, magically removed themselves into a nice neat coffin.

[bodie]

It is not easy to gain accurate insight into the what the separatists are doing because the traditional routes of info, like the news seem to grab one angle and exploit the fuck out of it.  There is little difference in the 'news' between sky, BBC and all the other 'independent' ones.

[ZEGH8578]

I haven't heard of any undignified treatment of the airplane victims, and like you, I've only seen desperate locals trying their best to treat the bodies with care, as you say, whatever care they can.

And yes, not to be a fan-girl, but I like the Vice dispatches (they count 60 by now), because they are very blunt and to the point, they remind a bit about Euronews' "No comment" section, except - there is commentary

But notice one thing, when watching a Vice dispatch: Try to count other journalists, in the sticky spots where Vice travels. Seldom will you see anybody else, and that says a bit about their journalism.
Vice is also the only (afaik) western reporters to visit South Sudan, going to the civil war front lines, as well as to Western Sahara, and such forgotten places. I have a lot of respect for them. I hope they stay true. It is only in the past few years they have been this capable of following big events, it seems they have managed to accumulate a lot of funds as of late.

['andersom']

What I read in the papers, I have deep respect for the people living in the area of the disaster.

[bodie]

Amidst all the political posturing,  the Malaysians have negotiated with the separatists and it seems the demands of the west are being met.  The bodies are now moving,  the black boxes are being handed over and investigations are now under way.

STFU Mr Cameron,  Mr Obama and Mr Putin. 

[ZEGH8578]

Interesting development. I thought the Russians had aquired the black box. Maybe I misunderstood, and the rebels had picked it up - and were going to/urged to deliver it to the Russians.

[bodie]

I had heard that too.  That black boxes were in Moscow. 



or so it seemed. 

[lutra]

No, no, no.. (replying to some here).. in the end Putin, mark my words, is full-on responsible for killing almost 300 totally innocent people. Almost a third were children.. more than half Dutch folk. He gave the okay indirectly 'to missile down' the aeroplane. Flight MH17. That is what happened.