14 Caribbean nations sue European countries for slavery reparations

[conlang returns]

Your father commits a crime. He goes to jail.

The slave trade was legal and promoted by these nations' governments.  They were never punished for it.  The owning class of these countries was happily enriched by it, and had no problem passing on the profits they made to their children. 

You are imprisoned and forced to finish his sentence.

Name one person who will go to jail if the Caribbean nations win their suit.

Mortgage is a bad analogy. A mortgage is a special ownership agreement between a bank and a buyer where the bank agrees to pay for the house up front in exchange for small, regular payments from the buyer. Usually, mortgages include a clause that allows the bank to request immediate repayment of the entire mortgage upon the death of the buyer. Unless you reach a special arrangement with the bank, the bank will try to collect on any outstanding savings, IRA benefits, etc. to satisfy the debt. For relatives, there is a special law that would allow you to take up the mortgage if you want to. Source

If you want to continue with the bad analogy, then the answer is that you don't owe anything that you don't want to pay. Of course, the bank may foreclose.

Yes, the bank can foreclose.  That's what normally happens.  But in this case, I have an entire free house that no one ever paid for.  The terms of the hypothetical were that I did not take up the mortgage.  Name a situation where I get an entire house, free and clear, just because the person who incurred the required debt is dead.  I don't want to pay the debt remaining on the house.  But I don't want to give up the house either.  In most cases, I won't be able to get both. 

Can the harm done by slavery be undone by money?

I don't think people living in absolute poverty are likely to turn their noses up at money just on principle.  Would you?

That's not what I asked. I'm asking whether you think that you'd be unfairly penalizing current citizens in the countries being sued.

The current citizens continue to benefit from the wealth extracted from these populations. 

Usually, harms that impair liberty are dealt with in criminal systems, not civil systems. As far as reparations go, I'm not aware of any legal system that forces anyone to pay for the crimes of their ancestors. Furthermore, the ones suing aren't the ones who were slaves.

You can choose to interpret it that way.  But that interpretation ignores the financial benefit to the nations being sued.  Going back to the mortgage, do you think the bank is going to let me have a free house just because the guy who mortgaged it kicks the bucket?

As long as the bank gets paid by someone, they don't care. But that's extending the analogy too far. Was the harm done to the slaves primarily financial? I think that the harm done to them is greater in the area of civil rights. They were denied freedom.

What about my charge that this suit cheapens the wrong done by slavery?

As everyone likes to keep pointing out, the people who were actually enslaved are all dead.  The fiscal harm to their descendants continues.  Why should the people who benefitted financially from slavery continue to pass on their wealth without compensating the people who continue to pass on their poverty?   

[P7PSP]

As for the apology, one highly underestimates the power of such a thing if you feel you are only apologising to dead people, and feel you have no place in the legacy of that. A lack of compassion and responsibility is what that is.

If only the rest of the world had your compassion.  What a wonderful world this would be. 

Except for the Apology rejected! part that is. That makes it clear to me that no amount of apologizing and ass kissing will ever be enough. Stay angry my friend. 

What makes me angry is that they said an apology was issued in 2008 and 2009 in the US. Fuckers. Don't nobody know about no apology! If the people you are apologising to don't even know you apologised, then it's not an apology.

What doesn't make you angry would be a much shorter list.

Just because you did not know about it does not mean it did not happen. On July 29, 2008 House Resolution 194 was passed by a voice vote and placed in the Congressional Record. This was covered by NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, NPR, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The San Francisco Chronicle and every other major paper.

On June 19th 2009 the US Senate unanimously passed its own resolution which was also published in the Congressional Record and reported on by all major US media outlets. Again the fact that you were unaware of this development does not mean that it did not happen and it does not mean that it was not reported.

Apology rejected. Nobody knows about it!!! If you're going to apologise u make sure its on every public news station, radio station, and bill board. Make sure kids know about in school and commemorate it each year. Fuckers wrote a note and put it in a box. Thats not a fucking apology. Makes me sick. Assholes.

Apology Rejected! Wow that sure as fuck makes me want to do back flips to make you happy. 

Nothing will ever be enough will it sg?

[RageBeoulve]

As everyone likes to keep pointing out, the people who were actually enslaved are all dead.  The fiscal harm to their descendants continues.  Why should the people who benefitted financially from slavery continue to pass on their wealth without compensating the people who continue to pass on their poverty?

They're not looking to close the gap if they're asking for money.

[P7PSP]

As everyone likes to keep pointing out, the people who were actually enslaved are all dead.  The fiscal harm to their descendants continues.  Why should the people who benefitted financially from slavery continue to pass on their wealth without compensating the people who continue to pass on their poverty?

If you really believe that you could take a let it begin with me approach and apologize to random black folks in your area and offer them $20 or $30 to help make up for their vicarious suffering under the lash.

What is stopping you DL?

[RageBeoulve]

Still saying. Resources, not money. If these people were asking for their cut of say, land. Or maybe gold mines or raw materials used in manufacturing, then okay I might believe them when they say they're trying to close the gap created by the enslavement of their ancestors.

Since they're asking for money, I find their behavior to be nothing but a silly joke.

[Semicolon]

Your father commits a crime. He goes to jail.

The slave trade was legal and promoted by these nations' governments.  They were never punished for it.  The owning class of these countries was happily enriched by it, and had no problem passing on the profits they made to their children. 

You are imprisoned and forced to finish his sentence.

Name one person who will go to jail if the Caribbean nations win their suit.

Mortgage is a bad analogy. A mortgage is a special ownership agreement between a bank and a buyer where the bank agrees to pay for the house up front in exchange for small, regular payments from the buyer. Usually, mortgages include a clause that allows the bank to request immediate repayment of the entire mortgage upon the death of the buyer. Unless you reach a special arrangement with the bank, the bank will try to collect on any outstanding savings, IRA benefits, etc. to satisfy the debt. For relatives, there is a special law that would allow you to take up the mortgage if you want to. Source

If you want to continue with the bad analogy, then the answer is that you don't owe anything that you don't want to pay. Of course, the bank may foreclose.

Yes, the bank can foreclose.  That's what normally happens.  But in this case, I have an entire free house that no one ever paid for.  The terms of the hypothetical were that I did not take up the mortgage.  Name a situation where I get an entire house, free and clear, just because the person who incurred the required debt is dead.  I don't want to pay the debt remaining on the house.  But I don't want to give up the house either.  In most cases, I won't be able to get both.

As I said, the analogy is bad. If you insist on painfully extending it, then consider any other type of debt used to pay for a house. Let's say that someone buys you a house using a credit card. The house is in only your name, and the credit card debt is in the other person's name. Title transfers to you before the card holder's death. If that person dies, the credit card company can't foreclose on the house because it doesn't belong to the decedent, and you never assumed responsibility for the debt. It's yours, free and clear.

This is tortured and irrelevant. Mortgages are a special kind of loan, not a metaphor for slavery. Let's move on.

Can the harm done by slavery be undone by money?

I don't think people living in absolute poverty are likely to turn their noses up at money just on principle.  Would you?

That's not what I asked. I'm asking whether you think that you'd be unfairly penalizing current citizens in the countries being sued.

The current citizens continue to benefit from the wealth extracted from these populations.

Can you prove that?

Usually, harms that impair liberty are dealt with in criminal systems, not civil systems. As far as reparations go, I'm not aware of any legal system that forces anyone to pay for the crimes of their ancestors. Furthermore, the ones suing aren't the ones who were slaves.

You can choose to interpret it that way.  But that interpretation ignores the financial benefit to the nations being sued.  Going back to the mortgage, do you think the bank is going to let me have a free house just because the guy who mortgaged it kicks the bucket?

As long as the bank gets paid by someone, they don't care. But that's extending the analogy too far. Was the harm done to the slaves primarily financial? I think that the harm done to them is greater in the area of civil rights. They were denied freedom.

What about my charge that this suit cheapens the wrong done by slavery?

As everyone likes to keep pointing out, the people who were actually enslaved are all dead.  The fiscal harm to their descendants continues.  Why should the people who benefitted financially from slavery continue to pass on their wealth without compensating the people who continue to pass on their poverty?

And those who did the enslaving are long dead. Why insist on punishing their descendants for slavery when the descendants played no part in it?

As everyone likes to keep pointing out, the people who were actually enslaved are all dead.  The fiscal harm to their descendants continues.  Why should the people who benefitted financially from slavery continue to pass on their wealth without compensating the people who continue to pass on their poverty?

If you really believe that you could take a let it begin with me approach and apologize to random black folks in your area and offer them $20 or $30 to help make up for their vicarious suffering under the lash.

What is stopping you DL?

Did you benefit from slavery, DeadLion?

[Semicolon]

As for the apology, one highly underestimates the power of such a thing if you feel you are only apologising to dead people, and feel you have no place in the legacy of that. A lack of compassion and responsibility is what that is.

If only the rest of the world had your compassion.  What a wonderful world this would be. 

Except for the Apology rejected! part that is. That makes it clear to me that no amount of apologizing and ass kissing will ever be enough. Stay angry my friend. 

What makes me angry is that they said an apology was issued in 2008 and 2009 in the US. Fuckers. Don't nobody know about no apology! If the people you are apologising to don't even know you apologised, then it's not an apology.

What doesn't make you angry would be a much shorter list.

Just because you did not know about it does not mean it did not happen. On July 29, 2008 House Resolution 194 was passed by a voice vote and placed in the Congressional Record. This was covered by NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, NPR, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The San Francisco Chronicle and every other major paper.

On June 19th 2009 the US Senate unanimously passed its own resolution which was also published in the Congressional Record and reported on by all major US media outlets. Again the fact that you were unaware of this development does not mean that it did not happen and it does not mean that it was not reported.

Apology rejected. Nobody knows about it!!! If you're going to apologise u make sure its on every public news station, radio station, and bill board. Make sure kids know about in school and commemorate it each year. Fuckers wrote a note and put it in a box. Thats not a fucking apology. Makes me sick. Assholes.

Apology Rejected! Wow that sure as fuck makes me want to do back flips to make you happy. 

Nothing will ever be enough will it sg?

Well spoken.

[sg1008]

What doesn't make you angry would be a much shorter list.

Because you know me so well. /sarcasm

[Semicolon]

What doesn't make you angry would be a much shorter list.

Because you know me so well. /sarcasm

But you didn't answer his question. Is there anything that anyone could reasonably do that would satisfy you on this issue?

[sg1008]

What doesn't make you angry would be a much shorter list.

Because you know me so well. /sarcasm

But you didn't answer his question. Is there anything that anyone could reasonably do that would satisfy you on this issue?

I couldn't remember the question, I was too busy having my feelings hurt. And yes, I am being serious. I am not always .

I would be satisfied if I could walk into multiple jails around the country and not behold a sea of black and brown bodies bespectacled with few poor white ones. Or walk into a poor urban black community and not hear every other person talk about going to jail. Then to me that would mean racism is no longer institutionalised, and black communities are no longer plagued by an overwhelming jail culture which just kills it. Otherwise I don't trust anything the government has to say, and am not convinced they mean anything by an apology especially considering barely anyone knows it ever happened.

[RageBeoulve]

Take heart, everyone will be in prison soon, regardless of skin color. You need to forget this race shit and attack the people who are actually responsible, dude.

[Lestat]

Hows about we make 'reparations', if and ONLY if the respective countries agree to help undo the damage done to our societies by agreeing to take back the infestations we were left with after slavery became illegal.

We didn't see THAT coming, did we now? once slavery was banned, we should have deported the former slaves. We failed to do so, and now look what we got left with-a nigger infestation that has become completely out of control. And without even the most basic attempts at controlling the problem, they have just been left to their own devices, to breed amongst themselves, and to miscegenate freely; filling our countries with more negroes and halfbreeds.

[sg1008]

Take heart, everyone will be in prison soon, regardless of skin color. You need to forget this race shit and attack the people who are actually responsible, dude.

Such as the government?

[RageBeoulve]

Take heart, everyone will be in prison soon, regardless of skin color. You need to forget this race shit and attack the people who are actually responsible, dude.

Such as the government?

Nope. They're part of the business model now. Go deeper.

[sg1008]

Take heart, everyone will be in prison soon, regardless of skin color. You need to forget this race shit and attack the people who are actually responsible, dude.

Such as the government?

Nope. They're part of the business model now. Go deeper.

The secret government?