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Author Topic: Iowa FTW  (Read 22707 times)

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Offline Bastet

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #240 on: September 17, 2013, 09:42:08 PM »
Seems? Does it or doesn't it?
it does...

If you write 'seems like' people might do research.

Louisiana just passed a bill that nullifies all gun control legislation.  Now convicted felons can buy guns.

Convicted felons can get a gun whether or not it is legal if they are up to no good. Also, convicted felon is a broad term. What crimes does it cover? Are all convicted felons even guilty of their charges? Does convicted felon mean you are a lesser person, even if you've  proven  yourself rehabilitated?
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #241 on: September 17, 2013, 10:49:34 PM »
On that note:
Ordinary people will do fucked up things when fucked up things become ordinary.

Lets give everybody a gun, promote competition through capitalism and nullify the government and laws.  Volunteerism....what could go wrong?

How could it possibly go more wrong than it is today?

It is incredible that most people don't understand that 99% of the things that are wrong on this planet is because of the state. They think that this is bad but that it would be 1000 times worse without a government. But anarchy works perfectly if the society is just small enough.

Comprising one person, maybe.

Last I checked, the population was more than one.

Modern Times

I have posted this before. Why do you keep denying it? When Brentwood was Modern Times, they had no cops, no courts and no crimes. Everyone signed a social contract, a real one on paper, not a false imaginary one. Everyone followed the rules voluntarily.

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Initially, no system of authority existed in the colony; there were no courts, jails or police. This appears to have given some credence to Warren's theories that the most significant cause of violence in society was most attributable to policies and law which did not allow complete individuality in person and property. However, the modest population of the colony might be considered a factor in this characteristic.

We have been through this before, Lit. It doesn't work.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #242 on: September 17, 2013, 10:52:08 PM »
In many (most?) countries in Europe it is very hard to legally kill in self-defence. The state monopoly on violence is so important here that it is better - from the state's point of view - that a law-abiding citizen is killed or wounded for life than that a burglar or rapist etc. gets what he deserves.

It *should* be hard. The risk of some moron getting it wrong is not insignificant and innocent would die.

You mean "innocent" like some burglar breaking into your house 3 o'clock in the morning? I know a case where a man got one year in jail for firing a gun over the head of a burglar. The burglar was 20 years old. The other man was almost 70 and suffered a heart attack from the event, yet got one year. Swedish "justice" at its very best.

Innocent, like a teenager returning home late. Accidents involving guns in the home are quite common.

Now, add poor night vision to the mix.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #243 on: September 17, 2013, 10:54:41 PM »
Do you think we should all be allowed military helicopters, missiles and grenades too? Because, let's face it, with nothing but your rifle, you#re gonna do FUCK ALL to the government.

They won't allow me to have Tomahawk missiles or nukes. :(
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #244 on: September 17, 2013, 11:08:20 PM »
Niggas be trollin in here.

And you think you could overthrow the government with your rifles?

When they have the military at their disposal? Get fucking real.

I suggest you go back and read the exchange we had earlier about that EXACT same statement. Your reason is failing, but we can dance that dance again, if you want. I'm willing to bet that even though you have a posse which agrees with you, I will still technically defeat your stance because I have a ridiculous amount of information at my disposal on the subject of guns and government, and i'd bet my testicles that you do not. You likely get your information from media, and word of mouth from like minded friends.

Bring it, Adam. It could be fun if you got serious about it. I really enjoy stomping all over disillusionment.

His point is the same as mine and very, very simple. It takes a lot more than guns to overthrow a government today, corrupt or otherwise. The illusion of an armed citizen as hinted by the 2d amendment is just that, an illusion. If you want enough firepower to overthrow your government, you'd better make the NRA more efficient because they are lobbying for the wrong thing.

You might as well use harsh words.

If you go back and read instead of skim, you will discover I stated very clearly that it takes more than firearms to overthrow a government, but there is no chance without them. Let me paraphrase. Firearms are required for rebellion, along with many other tecniques and equipment. This being said, yes I do think it is possible to take on the American government and straighten them out, IF everyone pulled their heads out of the sand and stopped being irresponsible little faggots. As in this is their mess to clean up, not the government's.

If you actually read the thread instead of giving in to the knee-jerk, you will note that this thread is yet another example of the usual I2 gun law debate, which gives it a context in which both our replies should be read. The thread is not titled "the things I actually need to overthrow the government".

I've said time and again that you need a lot more than guns if you want to realistically overthrow a corrupt government, which is the raison d'etre for the 2d amendment and what you people will frequently refer to when wanting to keep your guns, whatever the cost.

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I think that should indeed be part of the training. In this way, the public who wished to own firearms would have the basic skills a soldier is given, and be able to make those quick judgements based on experience. For instance, one would quickly scan an attacker for weapons. If they are armed with a gun, then kill them. If they are armed with anything else, shoot them in the leg or the arms.

That's an excellent point. Thanks for bringing it up.

What ever happened to warning shots? You know, your kid's friend's cue to go "Wait! It's me!"

If someone receives the proper training, they will be able to judge whether or not an attacker is a threat. There should be no need for warning shots. If someone makes the mistake of going for someone with a knife, they should be ready to accept the fact that they may get a hole in their leg.

This is bullshit, Rage. There are plenty of examples of trained folks getting it wrong.

Lazy trained folks. Trained folks that don't give 110% in their job. Yeah i'm sure you could show me plenty of examples of those. Find me an example of one motivated and dedicated soldier or law enforcement officer who "got it wrong". I CHALLENGE YOU, sir.

I won't feed your circle jerk, then. I bet that you'd dismiss every example I'd produce as someone not giving "110%". What's the bloody point?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #245 on: September 17, 2013, 11:10:34 PM »
Do you think we should all be allowed military helicopters, missiles and grenades too? Because, let's face it, with nothing but your rifle, you#re gonna do FUCK ALL to the government.

Of course. Why should the military have monopoly on those weapons?

Because then the current gun-related statistics would be dwarfed by some really big numbers involving "Tomahawk-related accidents in the home", "school bombings involving nukes" and the like.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #246 on: September 17, 2013, 11:12:17 PM »
Adam doesn't have the right spirit! :arrr:

I'm starting to think he actually doesn't understand these concepts, Lit. I've seen that the guy is pretty into activism, and seems to really care about humanity. Seems like the right "spirit" to me. Maybe he -really- doesn't get it.  :dunno:

Or maybe, oh, I dunno, he does but you don't. What makes you so certain that you are right?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #247 on: September 17, 2013, 11:14:51 PM »
Driving is a privilege; owning a gun is a right.

Technically, in the US, yes, because the latter is protected by the 2d amendment.

I suspect the only reason for this apparent anomaly is that cars hadn't been invented at the time.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #248 on: September 17, 2013, 11:18:05 PM »
Your stance so far has been a collection of stereotypes and bare assertions. How is it bizarre to hold that people are responsible for themselves?

???

What is stereotypical about the legal definition of blindness as a divider between who gets to use a gun and who doesn't?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #249 on: September 17, 2013, 11:18:57 PM »
You can't argue with most Europeans about guns. There are the few of us that understand that gun ownership is a right and a means for protecting freedom.

Then there is the rest, in my country and many more even including many or most of the gun owners, who are so thorougly brainwashed by propaganda that it is impossible for them to understand the concept.

One could use pretty much the same argument re gun nutters. Try it.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #250 on: September 17, 2013, 11:25:53 PM »
You are being extremely close-minded, Adam. Its like arguing with a religious zealot. Did you know that knives and pointy shaped things WERE originally designed to kill things? They have since become tools to be used for safety and utility.

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldowan#The_tools
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #251 on: September 17, 2013, 11:32:16 PM »
Seems? Does it or doesn't it?
it does...

If you write 'seems like' people might do research.

Louisiana just passed a bill that nullifies all gun control legislation.  Now convicted felons can buy guns.

Plus, many states - Iowa is a shining example, I believe - will automatically give you a permit if you have one obtained in another state.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Adam

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #252 on: September 18, 2013, 12:17:12 AM »
Those ruling the world are psychopaths, murderers, criminals, even by the definition of the laws of the states that they rule. People are raped, tortured and murdered so that they can play their sick little games. Yet people like Adam think that this is perfectly OK and that we should make it even easier for them to rape, torture and murder by disarming all civilians.

Logically this must be what Adam et al are thinking, since they don't think that it is wrong with armed states, only armed citizens. He said it. Most other people who are for disarming the citizens are also against disarming the state.

Didn't I say earlier that I would LIKE the state to be disarmed as well, but that between 1) state and civilians armed and 2) only state armed, I choose 2

Please show me how the UK government are routinely raping, killing and torturing british citizens

Offline Adam

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #253 on: September 18, 2013, 12:18:23 AM »
Well there isn't really much we can do to get rid of these weapons altogether now, is there? So yes, I'd rather the state had them rather than ANY fucker who wants them

You show your hand now. Would you care to tell me why you think this?

What do you want me to say? I simply feel much more comfortable knowing my neighbours haven't all got rifles in their houses.

Offline Adam

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #254 on: September 18, 2013, 12:21:53 AM »
You are against more than gun ownership, and you know it. Lets be honest with each other, okay?

Ok so what else is this about then? I assmued we were just discussing guns.

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Because it is simply a fact. The objects you claim are tools and claim are morally justifiable in light of firearms, were originally developed for murdering people. I'll say it again, pointy things were originally a weapon, and used to commit murder. Since then humans have gained more wherewithal and killing things with these objects is quite rare in comparison to their more common uses. Same with GGGUUUUUUNNS. By calling these pointy things tools, you automatically give firearms the same label without intending to, since they were both developed for the same reasons. To kill. Whether that be killing food, or other people.

:facepalm:  I said a kitchen knife is not primarily used as a weapon today. What it was used for by "cavemen" is irrelevant. A gun is still a weapon. A kitchen knife (today) is mainly used to cut food. A gun is a weapon, end of.