'GO HOME' vans to fight immigration

['Butterflies']

thanks. Didn't know that. I imagine a lot of war refugees are gaining asylum.

Yes. We have a lot of Somalis, Afghans, Iraqi Kurds, etc.

I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?

I cant speak for Europeans. Europe isn't really a single entity at all. Its nothing like the "United States of Europe," as some people try and claim.
Some of the Eastern European countries are deeply racist, while a lot of the more western ones are far less racist.

In Britain, I would say opinion is divided. A lot of us have sympathy for immigrants, but a lot of the population are dead against them. Most people, even the more racist ones, agree that we should allow in genuine refugees, who will be persecuted if they go home.

As for propaganda, I would say it partly depends on who's in power, and what section of the population they want to appeal to, at any given time.
Labour are generally less anti-immigration, but they often have to court the core Conservative voters, by trying to appear more hardline on immigrants.
Conservatives are generally quite anti-immigration, but at the moment, we have a new party, UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party.) They are really nasty, rather racist, and totally anti-Europe. They are stealing a lot of the Conservatives core vote, which is terrifying the Conservatives, and they are now becoming even more anti-immigration, and anti-Europe, in an attempt to compete with UKIP.


Sorry if thats a bit too long and rambling

[Adam]

Haha positive propaganda about you personally? Sorry, it seems we are confusing each other again

No, I was quoting you there. You said "positive propaganda about you" and I didnt know who the "you" meant

The mainstream media here (I'm only talking about the UK here, dunno about the rest of europe, altho I;d guess it's similar) are mostly against immigration

For example in the UK, the Guardian and the Independent are sensible about things, but most of the other newspapers jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon and do it a lot. Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, as well as the trashy papers like the SUn and the Star and the News of the World, they're virtually all anti-immigration

[Jack]

Sorry if thats a bit too long and rambling

Not at all. Very informative. Thanks, butterflies.

[Adam]

That's a good explanation butterfflies.

and I'd also add that the least anti-immigration of our main parties in recent years (the Lib Dems) have kind of died since the last election. So now there's even less opposition to the anti-immigration people

Although obviously Labour are the least anti-immigration out of Labour and Tories

[Jack]

Haha positive propaganda about you personally? Sorry, it seems we are confusing each other again

No, I was quoting you there. You said "positive propaganda about you" and I didnt know who the "you" meant

The mainstream media here (I'm only talking about the UK here, dunno about the rest of europe, altho I;d guess it's similar) are mostly against immigration

For example in the UK, the Guardian and the Independent are sensible about things, but most of the other newspapers jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon and do it a lot. Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, as well as the trashy papers like the SUn and the Star and the News of the World, they're virtually all anti-immigration

Oh, I see what I did now. Ha, I said you: about you, around you. around about you. The propaganda in and around the world about you

Thanks to you too, Adam. Very informative.

[Adam]

I'd also add that over here (and also in France and other western european countries  from what I can gather) much of the immigration issue is linked in with "Muslims"

A lot of the thicker racists seem to view asians as being synonymous with muslims

['Butterflies']

Positive propaganda about you? About who?

You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack

There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.

Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?

Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.

The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.

[Beardy McFuckface]

I have no real problems with a lot of illegal immigrants. I have problems for the people who exploit them.

I've more problems with people who are already native to this country, ie. Irish gypsies. Fucking knackers.

[Adam]

Oh shit I see what you meant now Jack. about as in around. Not about as in related to. Ha. Makes sense now. Sorry about that

And I can assure you there is no negative propaganda about you personally Jack. No positive propaganda about you either tho, sorry

[Adam]

I have no real problems with a lot of illegal immigrants. I have problems for the people who exploit them.

I've more problems with people who are already native to this country, ie. Irish gypsies. Fucking knackers.

That's what we try and get across to people over here too - would you rather have a load of hard working, tax paying immigrants or a bunch of lazy British-born slobs? People don't seem to get it

[Jack]

Oh shit I see what you meant now Jack. about as in around. Not about as in related to. Ha. Makes sense now. Sorry about that

And I can assure you there is no negative propaganda about you personally Jack. No positive propaganda about you either tho, sorry

['Butterflies']

I just typed "Daily Mail immigration" into google, and this was the first article that popped up. Its only 3 days old. It's not about illegal immigrants, but about legal ones from Eastern Europe.

In no way, one of the Mails nastier articles, but a sample of the general tone of the paper.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379478/Revealed-How-500-000-immigrants-given-social-housing-decade-number-families-waiting-list-hits-record-high.html

Revealed: How 500,000 immigrants have been given social housing in last decade as number of families on waiting list hits record high

*1.8million families are now on the waiting list on social housing
*Nearly 470,000 of the 4million migrants who arrived in the last ten years were given council homes
*David Cameron launched plans to give local people priority on waiting lists
*Clampdown will see migrants only become eligible for social housing after two years in the UK

Nearly half a million immigrants have been given taxpayer-funded homes over the past decade.
The revelation comes as the number of families on the waiting list for social housing hits a record 1.8million. Most are British born.
Of the four million migrants who arrived between 2001 and 2011, 469,843 were allocated council or housing association properties.

Around 1.2million foreigners now live in social housing – one in eight of the total. In London the figure is thought to be as high as one in five.
The national census statistics, which were released yesterday, highlight fears about increased pressure on public services when Romanians and Bulgarians win free access to jobs in this country in January.
The figures also show the effects of the large-scale immigration encouraged by the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown governments.
According to the census, 105,506 of the immigrants who found social housing after 2001 were from Eastern European states that joined the EU in 2004, most of them Poles.

In the mid-2000s, Whitehall officials estimated that the cost to taxpayers of maintaining a single social housing unit was £620 a year.
Assuming each unit is occupied by four people, that would put the housing costs of post-2001 migrants at between £5billion and £8billion.
Sir Andrew Green, of the MigrationWatch think-tank, said: ‘The figures serve to underline the huge costs of mass immigration – costs often ignored by the immigration lobby.’
In 2009, a report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission claimed there was ‘no evidence to support the perception that new migrants are getting priority over UK-born residents’.

The research found no evidence of abuse of the system such as queue jumping or providing false information.
But in March David Cameron announced a clampdown, including plans for a local residence test.
Local people will be given priority on waiting lists for social housing and migrants will become eligible only after two years.
Councils say the fundamental flaw in the plan is they will still be obliged to help any EU migrants who present themselves as homeless.
Mike Jones, of the Local Government Association, says: ‘If we don’t house them that means we are going to have to deal with them under the homeless laws which cost us a great deal more.’

[Jack]

Positive propaganda about you? About who?

You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack

There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.

Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?

Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.

The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.

Your answer was good. On really thinking about it, certan types of media should be expected to have some negative. It was probably the giant moving billboard that really twisted me. Have seen some negative things said by people in the UK, but they were racist views rather than protectionist views. Have never gotten the impression of the UK being protectionist to the extreme some in the US can be, so many countries so close and working together. Do you find the negative to be more racism than protectionism?

[Jack]

I just typed "Daily Mail immigration" into google, and this was the first article that popped up. Its only 3 days old. It's not about illegal immigrants, but about legal ones from Eastern Europe.

There's the protectionism.

['Butterflies']

Positive propaganda about you? About who?

You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack

There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.

Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?

Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.

The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.

Your answer was good. On really thinking about it, certan types of media should be expected to have some negative. It was probably the giant moving billboard that really twisted me. Have seen some negative things said by people in the UK, but they were racist views rather than protectionist views. Have never gotten the impression of the UK being protectionist to the extreme some in the US can be, so many countries so close and working together. Do you find the negative to be more racism than protectionism?

Its both, in equal measures. Protectionism is so much more socially acceptable, and so a closet racist will dress their racism up as protectionism.
A common statement from a closet racist might be, "I'm not racist, but I cant stand those foreigners coming over here, and stealing our jobs."

Even the BNP (British National Party,) who are a true racist party, far beyond even UKIP, try to dress their racism up as protectionism. Im sure they even promoted some guy who had an Asian wife, into a high position, just to show how non-racist they are.






On a slightly different point, its important to remember that the UK is not one country, but a union of two countries, plus several other entities. Attitudes vary across the different parts of UK.

The South of England is a very over-populated place, and a lot of their anti-immigration feelings are possibly protectionist. House prices are high, and its often hard for average families to live there. I think they have some justification in feeling annoyed that foreigners are coming over, and jumping the housing queue, and pushing up rents.

Scotland is a lot less densely populated, with large, virtually empty tower blocks or estates to put the immigrants into. Property prices are low in Scotland, and Scotland's pretty relaxed about immigration. I think many Scots feel that immigrants help the economy by taking jobs that the locals dont want, and the fact that they spend their money in Scotland further boosts the economy, creating jobs.
The vast majority of the property I own is in Scotland, and I find immigrants a godsend. They revitalize dying areas, or at least stop the areas from dying. They also fill up properties that might otherwise be empty. They help to keep the rental market from falling.

Northern Ireland is a total basket case. It has loads of housing lying empty with plummeting house prices and rent, lots of shop units lying empty, and businesses are struggling to make money. It could really use more people to bolster the economy, but the people of N.Ireland are just totally racist. They are generally too ignorant to realize how much they need immigration, and just hate the thought of anyone different to them living here.