Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse

[Jack]

I can't accept that, jack. Freedom is the only decent option. Ever.

Not sure what you inferred, but there's some misunderstanding. Never meant to imply otherwise. Of course they should have their freedom. It's simply the way things work. It's the only way oppression is ever overcome.

So you agree that the oppressors must be imprisoned for life/killed. Right?

Imprisoned, yes.

[bodie]

I got no interest in attacking men.

In fact, apportioning blame seems pointless and possibly impossible due to the complex number of factors responsible.

That does not mean ignoring it is right either.   I do believe that I am part of a nation who elected a government who, along with other nations, naively executed a war which directly or indirectly amplified the misery of the lives of these people.    That is so huge I can't ignore or forget it.

I have no idea how best to put things right.  Probably impossible to do so.

Acknowledgement and an effort to look much closer at decisions affecting Iraq is something to work towards, I suppose.  At least that should be possible.  It would be a start. 

[Bastet]

Humans are strange.

['Butterflies']

Humans are strange.

Yes. But I do kinda like them

[bodie]

The founding statement of OWFI contains a mandate in six points :

    To put in place a humanist law founded on equality and the assurance of the greatest freedom for women, and to abolish all forms of discriminatory laws;
    To separate religion from the government and education;
    To put an end to all forms of violence against women and honour killings, and to push for punishment for the murderers of women;
    To abolish mandatory wearing of veils, the veil for children and to protect freedom of dress;
    To put in place the equal participation of women and men in all social, economic, administrative and political spheres, at every level;
    To abolish gender segregation in schools at all levels.

[RageBeoulve]

I got no interest in attacking men.

In fact, apportioning blame seems pointless and possibly impossible due to the complex number of factors responsible.

That does not mean ignoring it is right either.   I do believe that I am part of a nation who elected a government who, along with other nations, naively executed a war which directly or indirectly amplified the misery of the lives of these people.    That is so huge I can't ignore or forget it.

I have no idea how best to put things right.  Probably impossible to do so.

Acknowledgement and an effort to look much closer at decisions affecting Iraq is something to work towards, I suppose.  At least that should be possible.  It would be a start.

The solution is to drop all the "cultural guilt" issues, professional victimism, nanny state/giant government trends, etc. In my opinion, all first world countries should stop becoming so weak and flaccid, and return to accepting personal responsibility on an individual level, performing with only excellence in everything that we do, and treating one another with respect and admiration.


As America stands now, the average citizen will be in diapers and fed through a tube in a few short years, only speaking or moving to declare some demographic commited an injustice against theirs and calling for their government to take action. How about your country?

[Bastet]

The founding statement of OWFI contains a mandate in six points :

    To put in place a humanist law founded on equality and the assurance of the greatest freedom for women, and to abolish all forms of discriminatory laws;
    To separate religion from the government and education;
    To put an end to all forms of violence against women and honour killings, and to push for punishment for the murderers of women;
    To abolish mandatory wearing of veils, the veil for children and to protect freedom of dress;
    To put in place the equal participation of women and men in all social, economic, administrative and political spheres, at every level;
    To abolish gender segregation in schools at all levels.

I hope they mean that.

[Jack]

Acknowledgement and an effort to look much closer at decisions affecting Iraq is something to work towards, I suppose.  At least that should be possible.  It would be a start.

There's no way to take a closer look at those decisions. The UN aren't exactly the full disclosure transcript type.

[bodie]

I got no interest in attacking men.

In fact, apportioning blame seems pointless and possibly impossible due to the complex number of factors responsible.

That does not mean ignoring it is right either.   I do believe that I am part of a nation who elected a government who, along with other nations, naively executed a war which directly or indirectly amplified the misery of the lives of these people.    That is so huge I can't ignore or forget it.

I have no idea how best to put things right.  Probably impossible to do so.

Acknowledgement and an effort to look much closer at decisions affecting Iraq is something to work towards, I suppose.  At least that should be possible.  It would be a start.

The solution is to drop all the "cultural guilt" issues, professional victimism, nanny state/giant government trends, etc. In my opinion, all first world countries should stop becoming so weak and flaccid, and return to accepting personal responsibility on an individual level, performing with only excellence in everything that we do, and treating one another with respect and admiration.


As America stands now, the average citizen will be in diapers and fed through a tube in a few short years, only speaking or moving to declare some demographic commited an injustice against theirs and calling for their government to take action. How about your country?

I think it was a big fuck up.  All who participated should say so, openly.  Even the big guns like the UN.

The decisions made, like the installation of the interim government of Iraq were clearly ill thought out.  Like the proportions of sunni muslims, Kurds etc.  The complexities of sectarianism was, IMO, misunderstood and caused further unrest.

The subsequent decisions made by this 'new government' have made matters worse.  Decisions like making 'pleasure marriages' legal,  the reintroduction of Sharia law which blatantly makes women second class citizens, are all examples of this giant fuck up.

We can't turn the clock back, but I think  by acknowledging and talking about it, it makes it less likely to happen in the future.

Sure, folks will say "casualties of war, get over it" and I am sure people will point out the suffering of bygone wars too.  That is not progress.

[Jack]

Sure, folks will say "casualties of war, get over it" and I am sure people will point out the suffering of bygone wars too.  That is not progress.

One only needs look at bygone progress.

[bodie]

Acknowledgement and an effort to look much closer at decisions affecting Iraq is something to work towards, I suppose.  At least that should be possible.  It would be a start.

There's no way to take a closer look at those decisions. The UN aren't exactly the full disclosure transcript type.

They won't unless pressured.  They still might not anyway.  So at least 'try' ?

[Jack]

    To put in place the equal participation of women and men in all social, economic, administrative and political spheres, at every level;
   

Really liking this one.

[Jack]

They won't unless pressured.  They still might not anyway.  So at least 'try' ?

Not really sure what you're saying.

[bodie]

Sure, folks will say "casualties of war, get over it" and I am sure people will point out the suffering of bygone wars too.  That is not progress.

One only needs look at bygone progress.

One only needs look at bygone progress to know it's not worth bothering.

or

One only needs look at bygone progress to know we need to keep trying.


 

[Jack]

One only needs to look at bygone progress to know it comes from bygone suffering.