Why America will collapse.

[odeon]

China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.

The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.

It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.

Their problem is the way they treat their own.

Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.

I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.

[Gopher Gary]

People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.

I don't really know that many people.  My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. 

We'll just have to disagree, won't we?

Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. 

[ZEGH8578]

Hi everyone!

Here's something I like to think about:

If we, clever aspies, are here on a forum talking about America's impending downfall as inevitable - we cannot be the only ones who thought about this. We draw our clever paralels to previous empires, such as the Roman, we look at how empires grow and fall.

Don't you all think Americans also thought about this? Russians, the Chinese?

A country like China, as humongous and stable as it is right now, I predict it has the capacity to endure a status quo for quite some time. Through all the instability that has affected the world in the past 50 years, China still stands, Russia still stands, and USA still stands.
In fact, they have all grown in power, and Russia has expanded its borders on two or three occasions (three if you count the 2nd Chechnyan war as a reconquest of lost territory)
They are still eyeing out Abkhazia, Transnistria and more of Ukraine, as well as "theoretical" claims that cover all of Russian Imperial land (this would bring Poland, Balticum, Caucasus, Central-Asia and Finland back under Russian control)

My point is - people live and learn.
The Roman empire was not just taken back, but dismantled completely - not even Italy remained in the end, and in Medieval Europe, the previous frontiers of this empire were completely gone, and not a trace could be recognized:

(culture and such obviously survives, I'm talking about "territorial integrity", the existence of a political entity)

Compare this to Germany in the 1940s, it changes its political identity to an "Empire", and conquers tons of land - then falls apart. Disregarding technicalities and reasons - this is an example of a modern empire, that breaks up: German core regions still make out the country, although it is divided in two, for then to re-unite into the original pre-conquest variant (with a few losses, especially to Poland).
The Japanese empire also suffered similar losses - a collapse of all non-Japanese territory, but the actual island of Japan remaining firmly in Japanese control.
The Ottoman empire - the same story - non-Turk areas fell from their control, but Turkey is today the direct successor of the Ottoman empire, and still covers large non-Turk areas (Armenian and Kurdish) resulting in bloodbaths and ethnic cleansing.

America, Russia, China, may very well never collapse. They might lose some of their non-core areas, IF we compare with historical cases.

If we don't compare with historical cases, they might - just might - have found out how to not collapse so damn easily.
Sometimes I consider the possibility that America will indeed keep outdoing both Russia and China in applicable military power, and become a truly unstoppable force - one that will never crumble or collapse or implode, but just exist, exist and exist, untill humanity is all about enslavement and nothing else.

[Gopher Gary]

I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. 

[ZEGH8578]

I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. 

There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.

What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.

According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.

From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I

Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.

[Jack]

China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.

The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.

It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.

Their problem is the way they treat their own.

Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.

I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.

Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy.

[Gopher Gary]

People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.

I don't really know that many people.  My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. 

Just so you know, I'm not really upset at you about that stuff. Most of the time I just find it hypocritical and annoying. Foreigners constant blabbing about the americans is usually more like flies buzzing around making noise I don't like. But every now and then I come across things that really do upset me, and I've had a couple of recent experiences like that, so I'm probably being much more sensitive about it than usual. One was that stupid piece of crumpled up german newspaper. I can't even figure out why that bothered me, but I think that piece of paper is going to bug me for a long time. The other thing was something that was said here. I think it was a really messed up thing to say, and things like that make me wonder exactly how much genuine deep-seeded hatred is simply being veiled behind obsessive interest and mockery. Paranoid thoughts like that is what actually creeps me out, not necessarily the messed up things people say.

[Gopher Gary]

I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. 

There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.

What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.

According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.

From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I

Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.

That may all be true, but I don't think all those rootin tootin Putin photos are about that. That's PR stunt being directed at the entire world. The world is talking about Putin, and in a positive way. I think he's gearing up to be someone's hero. 

[ZEGH8578]

I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. 

There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.

What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.

According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.

From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I

Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.

That may all be true, but I don't think all those rootin tootin Putin photos are about that. That's PR stunt being directed at the entire world. The world is talking about Putin, and in a positive way. I think he's gearing up to be someone's hero. 

I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.
Analysts in Russia will be well aware of how these photos will be seen differently in "the west", where we - quite frankly - see them as a bit humorous. Mister president all bare-chested riding a horse in the wilderness, we KNOW his office isn't in the fucking wilderness, the first thing we think is "lol, pr stunt. but cool still."
To the Russians however, it will probably be much more powerful (and also more polarizing (and less lulzy))
I would, as a thinking, intellectual person, be quite worried, if our prime minister first used trickery to stay in office for longer than usual - then begun to pose bare chested in the wilderness, alluding to warriors and vikings and machoness. As a resident - I wouldn't find it funny.

[odeon]

People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.

I don't really know that many people.  My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. 

Because the internet told you so?

You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.

You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.

We'll just have to disagree, won't we?

Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. 

[odeon]

Hi everyone!

Here's something I like to think about:

If we, clever aspies, are here on a forum talking about America's impending downfall as inevitable - we cannot be the only ones who thought about this. We draw our clever paralels to previous empires, such as the Roman, we look at how empires grow and fall.

Don't you all think Americans also thought about this? Russians, the Chinese?

A country like China, as humongous and stable as it is right now, I predict it has the capacity to endure a status quo for quite some time. Through all the instability that has affected the world in the past 50 years, China still stands, Russia still stands, and USA still stands.
In fact, they have all grown in power, and Russia has expanded its borders on two or three occasions (three if you count the 2nd Chechnyan war as a reconquest of lost territory)
They are still eyeing out Abkhazia, Transnistria and more of Ukraine, as well as "theoretical" claims that cover all of Russian Imperial land (this would bring Poland, Balticum, Caucasus, Central-Asia and Finland back under Russian control)

My point is - people live and learn.
The Roman empire was not just taken back, but dismantled completely - not even Italy remained in the end, and in Medieval Europe, the previous frontiers of this empire were completely gone, and not a trace could be recognized:

(culture and such obviously survives, I'm talking about "territorial integrity", the existence of a political entity)

Compare this to Germany in the 1940s, it changes its political identity to an "Empire", and conquers tons of land - then falls apart. Disregarding technicalities and reasons - this is an example of a modern empire, that breaks up: German core regions still make out the country, although it is divided in two, for then to re-unite into the original pre-conquest variant (with a few losses, especially to Poland).
The Japanese empire also suffered similar losses - a collapse of all non-Japanese territory, but the actual island of Japan remaining firmly in Japanese control.
The Ottoman empire - the same story - non-Turk areas fell from their control, but Turkey is today the direct successor of the Ottoman empire, and still covers large non-Turk areas (Armenian and Kurdish) resulting in bloodbaths and ethnic cleansing.

America, Russia, China, may very well never collapse. They might lose some of their non-core areas, IF we compare with historical cases.

If we don't compare with historical cases, they might - just might - have found out how to not collapse so damn easily.
Sometimes I consider the possibility that America will indeed keep outdoing both Russia and China in applicable military power, and become a truly unstoppable force - one that will never crumble or collapse or implode, but just exist, exist and exist, untill humanity is all about enslavement and nothing else.

I doubt any one of them will survive in the end, but it might take some time for them to fall. I believe the smaller countries stand a better chance.

OTOH, it's just a feeling I have.

[odeon]

China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.

The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.

It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.

Their problem is the way they treat their own.

Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.

I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.

Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy.

How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.

[odeon]

People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.

I don't really know that many people.  My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. 

Just so you know, I'm not really upset at you about that stuff. Most of the time I just find it hypocritical and annoying. Foreigners constant blabbing about the americans is usually more like flies buzzing around making noise I don't like. But every now and then I come across things that really do upset me, and I've had a couple of recent experiences like that, so I'm probably being much more sensitive about it than usual. One was that stupid piece of crumpled up german newspaper. I can't even figure out why that bothered me, but I think that piece of paper is going to bug me for a long time. The other thing was something that was said here. I think it was a really messed up thing to say, and things like that make me wonder exactly how much genuine deep-seeded hatred is simply being veiled behind obsessive interest and mockery. Paranoid thoughts like that is what actually creeps me out, not necessarily the messed up things people say.

I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.

Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.

[odeon]

I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.

QFT

[Gopher Gary]

Because the internet told you so?

You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.

Yeah that's right, the internet told me so. I don't spend time in other countries so that's how I've gotten my impression about how people in other countries obsess on the US.  I don't see people so obsessed with China because of it's size. Maybe the internet isn't telling me everything I need to know, and I'm missing all the foreigners obsessed with Chinese pop culture and stupid tabloid level spew the average Chinese person doesn't even see in their own local news. Let's say I'm obsessed with Nike. I buy all their crap, I buy their stock, I watch all their commercials, I'm well read about their corporate leaders, and always up to date on the goings on of company infrastructure and changes. As frequently as I can, I absorb myself some Nike. Along with all that, I never have anything positive to say about Nike, I say they're a shit company, I bash their leaders, I mock the stars in their commercials, and gossip like a schoolgirl about every internal happening I can find out. Then someone comes along and says, just stop obsessing on Nike if you hate it so much, and I say, Nike will always be in the mall because it's so big, and it's not an obsession I'm just influenced by it's size. I can't get away from Nike because every time I go to the mall there it is. But okay, it's the fault of the US for being so big that everyday people from other countries think and talk about it so much. 

You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.

First you said people like that are uncommon. Period. And now I'm supposed to be surprised just how common it really is. 

Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. 

I'm not sure why you're

I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.

Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Nothing was actually said. I made a smart ass remark to Pappy about how foreigners get all wet in the panties thinking about thinking about the US collapsing, and you wanted to contradict me about that. I think too many people where you live are watching Jerry Springer and eating Subway. I was just saying I'm not mad at you, and being honest that I might be a little more sensitive about obsessed foreigners than I normally would be.