I need feminism/the men's coalition because I am a fucking coward.

[Al Swearegen]

There is a lot of talk about glass ceiling. I think it is mainly bullshit. But women are under represented in Management! And??
Does that mean that women aren't as hungry for the positions? Does it mean that women are far more likely to be part time or stay at home Mothers? Does it mean that women do not assert themselves in the same way?
Any of these reasons may we a great reason not to promote a specific woman that has nothing to do with inequality.
If your workplace advertises for a new management position a 6 qualified men of the 20 guys and 2 qualified females of the 20 females there put up there hand, then the chances of a female getting the job is not as great. It is not unfair or bigotry nor another indictment on the patriarchy

[sg1008]

Are there positions women are more likely to put their hand up for than others?

Sometimes there is just a natural division of labour based on personality traits and socialization...both of which are impacted by gender. The only time inequality exists is if there is a person who has the qualities which will make them successful in a certain environment where one gender generally excels, but they are discriminated against based on false presumptions about their ability, and gender stereotypes.

There was time when women, not matter what they did, were always seen as inferior. This still exists under certain circumstances...

But conglomerate statistics are not to be trusted, because they are often misrepresented when talking about equal treatment. What is used to say something about society's treatment of a gender, may in reality reflect cultural self-selection.

that's why feminism confuses me...in general, people should be free...they shouldn't be forced to follow tradition or adhere to stereotypes, but if they CHOOSE to follow a tradition and have no problem fitting the stereotype, then they deserve that freedom as well.

Inequality is not the same as injustice.

[odeon]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

[Al Swearegen]

They have the caste system in India, don't they? Systematic cultural bigotry the is accepted by and large.
I am not surprised within this cultural dysfunction (culturally endorsed bigotry and bullying) that the culture is not being pro-active with rapes. It is rather sad and disgusting but I am not surprised by its
In some countries today, the leaders of communities will endorse a rape victim to be whipped or stoned for her part in adultery. This is unacceptable too.
In Australia, I think they have put in place all the laws, community awareness and such to combat rape, and it still happens. I do not know what further could conceivably done.....except my feral pig pit idea. (I still think it is a credible one and as I say, I am happy to put up my hand as the "push them in" guy)

[BadgerTom]

Do you live in India Odeon?

[El]

"Feminism" is the just western female copyright of what people normally do when they want human rights.

It could easily be called human rights. Or civil rights.

By calling it feminism you just limit the demographic. But, calling yourself a feminist can be construed as calling yourself "for" women's human rights, or "against" oppression of women. Yet...I am not entirely sold on the term because the focus is so narrow. True feminism (if you will), would not be limited to women...and as such, it would not be FEM, it would be human. So why the name?

I largely agree.  I think it depends on which "wave" of feminism you're talking about, but I think the word "feminism" is really charged, yet does not mean the same thing to everyone.  The word tends to turn me off, personally, because I usually assume it means "getting pissy about how oppressed women are, and getting hysterical when data is at all questioned."  However, I do think some people who self-identify as feminists do actually think rationally and are for equality, and identify as such as a subset of being for human rights/equality in general, else are particularly focused on equal rights for both (/all) genders.

[McGiver]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

this was the main reason I chose not to respond.  In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal.  No matter how you try and justify it.

[McGiver]

And in some places they are paid half.

In Australia, for doing the same job as the men do? Doubt it.

al, in America we just celebrated our 50th anniversary of the equal pay act.  Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
I'm sure you have laws as well.

We just passed a few years ago the lily Ledbetter act.  Google it.  Read up on her situation.  This is common place.

[BadgerTom]

Indeed

[Calavera]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

this was the main reason I chose not to respond.  In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal.  No matter how you try and justify it.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that men getting raped is an exception?

[McGiver]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

this was the main reason I chose not to respond.  In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal.  No matter how you try and justify it.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that men getting raped is an exception?

not only just a small percentage of all rapes but the consequences are not even the same.

[Calavera]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.

Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.

[Calavera]

Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.

Any evidence?

[McGiver]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.

Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.

it goes back to my entitlement by birthright argument.  Thanks for understanding.
The idea that men can just take women is something inherent to our culture.

[Calavera]

Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.

Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.

There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.

this was the main reason I chose not to respond.  In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal.  No matter how you try and justify it.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that men getting raped is an exception?

not only just a small percentage of all rapes but the consequences are not even the same.

The consequences are not even the same among men. Difference is very natural.

Women may be at a higher risk of rate, but men are also at higher risk of being put in prison for false rape charges and have other disadvantages as well.