Scrap, get your arse over here!

[odeon]

Show me the rule I changed to ban your sockpuppet.

Does it bother you now that you can no longer hide behind a sockpuppet when trolling a troll? Poow wittle Scwappy. Time you found guts enough to back up your words. I know, you've dodged every thread and every post where you're asked to back your shit up, but it ends here.

You've been the exception to an otherwise consistent policy here, actually. If anything, I've been nice and allowed you to keep your little sock when others haven't been allowed to register theirs. So c'mon, show me. Back up your words, just for once. Or is the karma log the closest you dare to be in a conflict?

[Scrapheap]

Before we go any further you have to answer this question with a yes or a no.

If I show that you're wrong, will you admit that you were wrong and apologize?

Oh, one other thing, unban my sock. It's a legit account that has broken no rules.

[odeon]

I knew you were sensitive but not *that* sensitive.

Show me the rule I changed.

[odeon]

Oh, and I thought you knew the rules in a callout. I don't have to do anything other than back up my words and stay out of the peanut gallery.

And no; your sock stays gone. I've had enough of you hiding behind a sock when you decide trolling is fun.

[odeon]

Take your time.

[Scrapheap]

I take that as a no. So since you've made it clear that you don't feel obligated to debate in good faith, you can go fuck yourself. I'm done interacting with you, period.

For the rest of you, to set the record straight, my sock was one of 12 that were part of the same usergroup. 6 other of these socks had multiple posts with the user being active several months after the fact, so it is clear that these were approved sock accounts. Go look them up in the Members lists, they're there.
 Now at some point or another some kind of prohibition on socks was passed, I wasn't privy to when this happened or how. However, after it was decided by whomever that there were to be no new socks, they did not delete the Sockpuppet Alert! usergroup, nor did they ban the accounts. Proof of this is that i was still able to post with my account, and when I did, over the course of several years, site management laughed along with my antics, cheered me on and plussed my karma. There was no if, ands or butts about the fact that site management gave full approval to these authorized socks. They were obviously covered by some kind of grandfather clause.
 Fast forward to a couple days ago. Odeon, seeing that I used my sock, decided to take cheap revenge over butthurt from some other thread. So being the playground bully type that he is, he took my toy, shoved me to the ground and kicked sand in my face becuase he's just that kind of insecure control freak. What a loser. 

So there you have it people, mine was far from being the only sock account floating around and as far as I'm concerned, anyone else here who wants a sock for comedy purposes, should be allowed to do so. 

[odeon]

Poor Scwappy feeling butthurt? I guess you're not going to back up your shit, then. Not feeling safe enough? Nice cop-out, considering that you knew right from the start that you wouldn't be able to prove anything.

As for the Sockpuppet alert member group, it was created long after the socks and I do remember why: the admins got annoyed with cunts like you trolling endlessly. Why you don't have the guts to do it with your own account I still don't understand but seeing that you are a spineless little coward I'm sure that's at least part of the reason.

You are the classic internet tough guy, at his toughest when hiding.

As for your banned sock, I suspect either you created it when you were an admin or someone like Cal or Hadron did it for you. Isn't that right, Scwappy?

[odeon]

Just spent some time checking the sockpuppet alert group. My recollection is correct. You created your account yourself. The same is true for a majority of the socks--they were created by members who were admins at the time (not necessarily at the same time, mind; there was no real organised effort) and the pattern is reasonably clear. There is also at least one sock that wasn't created as such but happened to share an IP with an existing member and one that was the first account of a member who lost her account details later on.

Of the 13 members in the group, 7 have posted. Of those 7, only you have posted after March 2008. You have a whopping 158 posts while the next is drucella with 34, none of which was written after 2006. Drucella, on the other hand, was used by several people IIRC. I think this was the account used to heckle Alex Plank with in the early days.

March 2008, as you may recall, was when the second direct democracy experiment finally ended.

So no, there was never a sockpuppet policy but there were temp admins who created socks while being admins, at a time when the site changed admins more often than you change underwear but with about the same results. When you and your lot had killed the democracy experiment, no new sockpuppets were registered. Why do you suppose that is, Scwappy?

And now that you are trying, why do you suppose none of them posted after March 2008 and why none of them posted much to begin with?

[odeon]

How's that backing up your shit thing coming?

[odeon]

Am I to assume that "done with interacting with you" means you won't back up your words? That's pretty weak.

I think you are probably a bit too sensitive for this place after all.

[odeon]

I've been thinking about callouts.

Callouts are the mechanism we have for settling matters. Basically, one member asks another member to back up his or her words while the other members may or may not comment in a peanut gallery. Once the callout is over, the peanut gallery will usually sort of decide who came out the winner. Other than the peanut gallery staying out of the callout and vice versa, that's about it as far as rules go.

No other preconditions, in other words. No promises of apologies, no requirement to admit anything afterwards. Nevertheless, in a callout in good faith that sort of thing frequently happens anyway because life is expected to go on and postwhoring resume.

Good faith, then. What does it mean?

Well, as far as I can determine, the above and that's it. Think about it. A callout happens when emotions are flying high and people are upset. Insults are traded and the ring is set up. Imagine two boxers warming up with the crowd cheering them on and the guy in the striped shirt barely being able to keep them apart. Can you imagine one of the boxers telling the other that he's only going to fight if the other will say he is sorry and admit defeat if he loses?

One would think that a KO would be enough. And if there's no KO, points are awarded and that should be that.

In the interest of good sportsmanship, they might still shake hands afterwards and admit whatever needs to be admitted, but that's after the fight. No way it happens before, no way it's agreed on before. It's in the nature of the fight.

The comparison is not perfect but the basics hold, IMO. Life does go on and there is usually a winner of sorts, decided here by the onlookers.

But to demand the sorry before the argument seems rather pointless to me. If anything, it feels a bit desperate and a copout, a convenient way to exit a lost cause. That, of course, is the fighter in me talking but nevertheless it's not part of the setup and nor should it be.

If we set up preconditions, I think callouts lose some of whatever meaning they have.

[Al Swearegen]

As far as I can see, this callout is over. Scrap has not replied over a number of days and said that he won't, so I will take it as read.
Look, I see things the same way. At the same time no problem in asking for anything in a callout. Callout should be airing of grievances rather than letting them fester. It helps clarify matters. Miscommunications, Misunderstood things, Different perspectives or even just a chance to expose bullshit. All good.
What I hate is people being sneaky or underhanded. I say throw it all out there. You have a dispute big enough to put it up for public scrutiny and risk being embarrassed by your opposition? Go for it, call them out. Make a claim, build a case.
It is a lot more honest and transparent and resolves a lot more than the alternative.

[odeon]

Yes, if there are grievances, this is the place where to settle them.

[Genesis]

This callout is better than that piece of crap known as Twilight  

[odeon]

Anything is better than Twilight.