Land dispute: US vs Onondaga for New York state

[odeon]

It may have been lost in the shuffle, Sir, but this was a legitimate interest. Didn't know Australia has a national ancestral guilt day.

In Australia there is a National Sorry Day that white Australians are supposed to endorse and seek to placate and reconcile with Aborigines.

Interesting. What's the name of this day? How is it celebrated? Here we have thanksgiving, gather the family, eat like pigs, and watch the parade.

Ah sorry mate.Yes, it is still publicised. It is not done in an official capacity. It is not recognised by most people.

It is literally "National Sorry Day". It will never really grow legs. It is an opportunity for those White Australian with "White guilt" to celebrate or mourn or whatever they do and for some Aboriginals to feel placated.

National guilt day, more like. I'd be offended by that sort of thing if I lived there, and even more so if I was an Aboriginal.

Why does the recognition of a wronged party always seem to entail invoking a collective guilt trip?

[odeon]

I give up. I don't respect statements that are lies, nor those that are racist. And I will call someone out on it. I don't care if you all have no idea how that was racist. I've tried to explain it, but you're set on believing stating "your people wronged my people a couple hundred years ago" blah blah blah is #1 a valid and accurate statement with regards to the OP, and #2 in need of respect despite.

Basically, then, you are not really interested in other people's POVs unless you get to define their intent.

[Al Swearegen]

It may have been lost in the shuffle, Sir, but this was a legitimate interest. Didn't know Australia has a national ancestral guilt day.

In Australia there is a National Sorry Day that white Australians are supposed to endorse and seek to placate and reconcile with Aborigines.

Interesting. What's the name of this day? How is it celebrated? Here we have thanksgiving, gather the family, eat like pigs, and watch the parade.

Ah sorry mate.Yes, it is still publicised. It is not done in an official capacity. It is not recognised by most people.

It is literally "National Sorry Day". It will never really grow legs. It is an opportunity for those White Australian with "White guilt" to celebrate or mourn or whatever they do and for some Aboriginals to feel placated.

National guilt day, more like. I'd be offended by that sort of thing if I lived there, and even more so if I was an Aboriginal.

Why does the recognition of a wronged party always seem to entail invoking a collective guilt trip?

I guess it doesn't really bother me. I view it like I do Lent. I don't really have an idea of exactly when it occurs in  the year, or anyone who actually attends, or what they actually do there, or what they get out of it and I do not pretend to understand the appeal.

That said so long as whoever attends IS getting something out of it, I have no real issue

[odeon]

Hell yeah, if they get something out of it and nobody else gets hurt, I'm all for it. What I don't like are the guilt trips imposed on third parties.

[Al Swearegen]

Hell yeah, if they get something out of it and nobody else gets hurt, I'm all for it. What I don't like are the guilt trips imposed on third parties.

Pretty much right there.
As mentioned before, there are some really good activists and Aboriginal leaders who do not get distracted into these things in a big way. There is a big push from some Aboriginal activists for "Reconciliation" but no real definition of what this mean from who and to whom. I do not support this airy fairy kind of thing.
The Aboriginal Leaders that instead get into their community, open up the community to expose and get help for their people and problems in the community and seek to give structured outcomes for the community ARE worth praise and support,

I give up. I don't respect statements that are lies, nor those that are racist. And I will call someone out on it. I don't care if you all have no idea how that was racist. I've tried to explain it, but you're set on believing stating "your people wronged my people a couple hundred years ago" blah blah blah is #1 a valid and accurate statement with regards to the OP, and #2 in need of respect despite.

Basically, then, you are not really interested in other people's POVs unless you get to define their intent.

We don't respect lies either and love exposing them. Parts was not lying.
I am opposed to racism. I think it devalues any argument or opinion. Parts is not being racist.
Yes his POV and yours can be accommodated as I have shown in my long post. Respect can be given to both.
You seek to re-define his motives and intents, that is all good but it does get you looking as though you are intolerant and bigoted and not able to critically look at an argument different from your own.
I think both you and Parts are wrong. I think both of you POV are too simplistic and unworkable and unfair. I do respect your POV's though regardless.

[RageBeoulve]

'Your people wronged my people a couple hundred years ago'    Blah blah blah  it gets old.  Go back far enough everyones been fucked by someone and everyone has fucked someone else

Boy you really don't know US law or history do you?

There are certain disputes that exist today which have been ongoing, and the Supremes court has ruled in favour of Indians for land disputes. They have the legal right to dispute those lands, and US has the obligation to meet the challenge.

Also, they weren't wronged 100 years ago, it is an ongoing and current offense. But of course, a statement like that shows you probably don't care to know your history. Taking a lot of self-restraint to not just start cursing...

Curse all you want I still will not care and they will not get what they want, sure they may get something and this is their angle to get as much as possible. 

see what I mean skyblue1? Parts doesn't care, just makes ignorant statements with no knowledge of the facts, the history, the law, or the purpose. Makes the same presumptions about people's motives that racists make.

And I didn't curse. For the record. But I am upset, because that racist BS is what lets a genocide to finish itself off. Should I expect morality from this place? Or are ethics out the window?

Is this a place for nazi's or something?

And I didn't curse. For the record. But I am upset, because that racist BS is what lets a genocide to finish itself off. Should I expect morality from this place? Or are ethics out the window?

Dude cmon. This may be a relatively mature zone as compared to other places on the internet, but you must keep in mind that its THE INTERNET.

[Pyraxis]

On the question of having guilt imposed on you for what your ancestors did.

I think it sucks, but I think it sucks more to be born into shitty conditions because of what somebody else's ancestors did.

I don't think there's any making up for what happened. Though I like the argument that's been going around recently that every time we (in the USA) complain about Mexican illegal immigrants, it's a case of what goes around comes around, and we were the illegal immigrants once.

I don't think it's necessary to have a shit ton of white guilt in order to treat people decently. Actually I think the white guilt gets in the way of matters, because it makes the subject uncomfortably charged, and creates a bad dynamic where the guilty person expects others to come along and say "it's ok, you're forgiven, I like you anyway" and that puts even more burden on the aboriginal person to take care of somebody else's needs when they probably just want to go about their lives.

[odeon]

On the question of having guilt imposed on you for what your ancestors did.

I think it sucks, but I think it sucks more to be born into shitty conditions because of what somebody else's ancestors did.

Or having guilt imposed on you because you happen to be white and so you get your share by proxy, but your family moved to the country a hundred years after the fact.

No, I don't think it's possible to make up for it either.

[Pyraxis]

That too. 

[RageBeoulve]

Agreed. Abunch of bad shit happened a longtime ago, and people are bitching even tough they are affected in no way whatsoever, separated from the acts by a century or more of time. They could not possibly even understand what their ancestors had to go through, so they are basically being whiny cunts.

White guilt- What a stupid thing. If these fuckers really want something to whine about, they should move to another country, maybe a third world country. Then they could discover what a hard days work or an empty belly REALLY feels like and REALLY have something to bitch about.


I personally have a very serious problem with people who stockpile wealth just for the sake of stockpiling it. Wealth could be stocks, gold, swiss bank accounts, etc. Those people seem to do this to ridiculous points just to see how grotesquely rich they can get. Okay, they are making themselves happy and being free, but their happiness is taking food and clothing from hundreds of thousands of people on a regular basis. Every time they wipe their asses with silk or brag about their damascus watch, some kid dies somewhere of starvation.

Now THAT is a fucking problem. Someone could complain about it because they are black and say that all the people who do that are white males, but what the fuck ever dude. I say they aren't. I say people of all color do this, and guess what? If you disagree with me you are a giant RACIST!

How about that feminists? How about that "oppressed" black people? How about that everyone who isn't a white male? CAN YOU DISAGREE?

[Parts]

The whole notion of guilt for what past generations did is disturbing to me.

[RageBeoulve]

Me too. Its jut bullying the way I see it.

[odeon]

The whole notion of guilt for what past generations did is disturbing to me.

Yes, it's weird.

[Jack]

'National Sorry Day'

[RageBeoulve]

National "give them what they want so they'll quit their bitching already day".