Before you climb up my ass, with a list of questions ...

[DirtDawg]

This Oscope you were fiddling with, is that for work, or pleasure?  What are you doing with it?

It's mine, a very old Tektronics twin trace, I use in the work I do for pleasure.

I will never use most of its functions. I have always been sort of a sound nut and now I analyse audio wave forms with it mostly, compare I/O on amps, phase align individual drivers in speaker systems, correct crossover anomalies.

In the old days I used it to trim out microphone responses for flatter sound and better impedance matching. Most of the old Shure microphones that were tough enough for road use need some "fixing" to get them to match up with each other. Aligning for phase in the main house system improves everything, too.

[Tesla]

Very cool.  I always wanted an oscope.  I get a lot of stuff off craigslist's "Free Stuff" section, but haven't seen one of them yet.  I got to play with them some in my physics lab, but not much.  What's your sound system like?

Have you ever seen this video before?

[DirtDawg]

Cool vid!

I don't really have a professional sound system anymore, although my DVD movie rig would make a decent full range band PA for a small club of about five hundred seats if I added more power to it. It's only fifteen hundred watts, combined, but it will make you dance. My deck stereo would put out a good acoustic band (no drums) sound for about the same size club. Sound reinforcement was my business earlier in the game. I just do a little for friends and fun, these days.

What I call my "good stuff" is really a nice, smooth, musical, warm sounding system, which uses tube power and a tube preamp. I have an old Dual turntable and three disk players in the system, also. A trusty old Garrard table for 78s and a Revox A77 that I bring in and out of the system. I also have it all hooked to my computer via an M Audio 2496 card and I use Winamp. The best sounding disk player is a Sony 365 that has been modded, followed by a Denon 2900. The amps are minimalist SET design ( not my design, I fucking wish I was smart!) which only have eight solder joints in the signal path. An audiophile's dream if you are not a power hog. If I want to rock out, though, I use my movie rig.

My real pride is in the fact that I have designed an open back di-pole speaker system using high efficiency professional drivers combined with a modern "fullrange" driver, which works in conjunction with a unique set of outboard diffusion/dispersion panels/columns. The columns, which I need a name for, sit between the cabinets and the wall. They are acoustically inert, sort of. I can tune the wall effects, reflections and out front sweet spot by moving and angling the three sided column, thus manipulating the di-pole effect to a greateer advantage. Using a spectrum analyser and a reverberation (time domain) analyser, I can "tune" the system to any room. I have amazing control of room resonances, standing waves and cancellations with this set up.

I have actually been working on this idea for about twenty years and I'm in my eleventh generation, third of the present configuration, although I haven't done much with it in about five years. It sort of resembles an upright bass instrument, but the secret (and genius - a lot of people have built open back speakers since dynamic drivers were invented in addition to electrostatic dipoles) is in the concept and architecture of the outboard diffusion/dispersion column, so that's about all I'll say about that aspect here.

The enclosures each use two fifteen inch JBL drivers, which I have custom built and matched for smooth, extended response and control rather than all out power handling. (Yes, I have been coning, reconing, customizing and correcting speaker drivers since I was a teenager, working part-time in a music store.) They are aligned with a German Visaton eight inch driver for the mids and upper frequencies. I have occasionally toyed with Heil and a few other ribbon tweeters in various positions, but not using them, right now.

About eight years ago I had become really satisfied with my open back set-up and I began work on a truly high efficiency horn loaded system from scratch. (The bass is not horn loaded - maybe some day) I was done with the math and had some computer simulations of various parameters plotted out when my son was born. It was another year before I made my first prototype of the mid-range horns out of wood. Martinelli Sound was my inspiration, many years ago.

Just over two years ago, I was done with the construction of the wooden midhorns, except for a fancy oil finish, which I did over the winter, and began the high frequency horns. I did much better software testing of my curves (hell, the programs are much better, now) on the highs and my first prototype was perfect, except for the phasing, which I have yet to complete, since my scope died. BUT, I got my scope up again, so I will get back to the task of perfecting the high horns and correcting the inner phasing plug inside the drivers. I just wish I could have the design perfected and hire a machinist to make the adaption/phasing pieces which mate the flare of the horns with the drivers. There is a small trick I play in this area, too, but high frequencies are much more critical anyway and a whole new set of problems rear their heads at the high compression that I am attempting. I am getting 104dB with one watt at one meter with my mids and bass cabinets.

Anyway, now you see why I seem like a complete, uncaring nutball in most ways. I am already distracted by something bigger than I and you maybe see why I need an oscilloscope. You also know better than to ask me about my sound system, now.

[McGiver]

Cool vid!

I don't really have a professional sound system anymore, although my DVD movie rig would make a decent full range band PA for a small club of about five hundred seats if I added more power to it. It's only fifteen hundred watts, combined, but it will make you dance. My deck stereo would put out a good acoustic band (no drums) sound for about the same size club. Sound reinforcement was my business earlier in the game. I just do a little for friends and fun, these days.

What I call my "good stuff" is really a nice, smooth, musical, warm sounding system, which uses tube power and a tube preamp. I have an old Dual turntable and three disk players in the system, also. A trusty old Garrard table for 78s and a Revox A77 that I bring in and out of the system. I also have it all hooked to my computer via an M Audio 2496 card and I use Winamp. The best sounding disk player is a Sony 365 that has been modded, followed by a Denon 2900. The amps are minimalist SET design ( not my design, I fucking wish I was smart!) which only have eight solder joints in the signal path. An audiophile's dream if you are not a power hog. If I want to rock out, though, I use my movie rig.

My real pride is in the fact that I have designed an open back di-pole speaker system using high efficiency professional drivers combined with a modern "fullrange" driver, which works in conjunction with a unique set of outboard diffusion/dispersion panels/columns. The columns, which I need a name for, sit between the cabinets and the wall. They are acoustically inert, sort of. I can tune the wall effects, reflections and out front sweet spot by moving and angling the three sided column, thus manipulating the di-pole effect to a greateer advantage. Using a spectrum analyser and a reverberation (time domain) analyser, I can "tune" the system to any room. I have amazing control of room resonances, standing waves and cancellations with this set up.

I have actually been working on this idea for about twenty years and I'm in my eleventh generation, third of the present configuration, although I haven't done much with it in about five years. It sort of resembles an upright bass instrument, but the secret (and genius - a lot of people have built open back speakers since dynamic drivers were invented in addition to electrostatic dipoles) is in the concept and architecture of the outboard diffusion/dispersion column, so that's about all I'll say about that aspect here.

The enclosures each use two fifteen inch JBL drivers, which I have custom built and matched for smooth, extended response and control rather than all out power handling. (Yes, I have been coning, reconing, customizing and correcting speaker drivers since I was a teenager, working part-time in a music store.) They are aligned with a German Visaton eight inch driver for the mids and upper frequencies. I have occasionally toyed with Heil and a few other ribbon tweeters in various positions, but not using them, right now.

About eight years ago I had become really satisfied with my open back set-up and I began work on a truly high efficiency horn loaded system from scratch. (The bass is not horn loaded - maybe some day) I was done with the math and had some computer simulations of various parameters plotted out when my son was born. It was another year before I made my first prototype of the mid-range horns out of wood. Martinelli Sound was my inspiration, many years ago.

Just over two years ago, I was done with the construction of the wooden midhorns, except for a fancy oil finish, which I did over the winter, and began the high frequency horns. I did much better software testing of my curves (hell, the programs are much better, now) on the highs and my first prototype was perfect, except for the phasing, which I have yet to complete, since my scope died. BUT, I got my scope up again, so I will get back to the task of perfecting the high horns and correcting the inner phasing plug inside the drivers. I just wish I could have the design perfected and hire a machinist to make the adaption/phasing pieces which mate the flare of the horns with the drivers. There is a small trick I play in this area, too, but high frequencies are much more critical anyway and a whole new set of problems rear their heads at the high compression that I am attempting. I am getting 104dB with one watt at one meter with my mids and bass cabinets.

Anyway, now you see why I seem like a complete, uncaring nutball in most ways. I am already distracted by something bigger than I and you maybe see why I need an oscilloscope.

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

[Calandale]

 

[Alex179]

Thats awesome Dawg.   I wish I was more involved in sound sometimes.   I spend too much time on games and playing acoustic (too lazy to even plug in sometimes).    I listen to music mainly in my car through the iPod via the AUX jack in the front of my stereo.   My PC speakers are 5.1 dolby and are fine for my room.   What you have is fantastic though, especially since you can take pride in making it yourself.

[DirtDawg]

Thats awesome Dawg.   I wish I was more involved in sound sometimes.   I spend too much time on games and playing acoustic (too lazy to even plug in sometimes).    I listen to music mainly in my car through the iPod via the AUX jack in the front of my stereo.   My PC speakers are 5.1 dolby and are fine for my room.   What you have is fantastic though, especially since you can take pride in making it yourself.

Wanna hear a punchline? I don't give a fuck about mobile audio. I don't even have an after market head unit in my car. I'm into live music mostly, or high quality sound, which you can not get in a car. Cars are just too noisy for decent sound without making your ears bleed.

I have built a few bad ass subwoofer boxes for acquaintances' cars, though. I'm really good with sixth order designs and getting an "SQ" sound out of them, but I would rather use them for music, not cars..

[DirtDawg]

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

Oops, I did get a little carried away there, didn't I?

There's just no short answer to the question, "Why do you need a scope or what't your sound system like?"

I barely even mentioned the deck system or the DVD system.




Like I said on the first page ... Get a helmet!

[McGiver]

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

Oops, I did get a little carried away there, didn't I?

There's just no short answer to the question, "Why do you need a scope or what't your sound system like?"

I barely even mentioned the deck system or the DVD system.

if you are dying to tell us about it, i am here for you, man!

[DirtDawg]

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

Oops, I did get a little carried away there, didn't I?

There's just no short answer to the question, "Why do you need a scope or what't your sound system like?"

I barely even mentioned the deck system or the DVD system.

if you are dying to tell us about it, i am here for you, man!

Thanks, but my fingers are tired, now.

[McGiver]

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

Oops, I did get a little carried away there, didn't I?

There's just no short answer to the question, "Why do you need a scope or what't your sound system like?"

I barely even mentioned the deck system or the DVD system.

if you are dying to tell us about it, i am here for you, man!

Thanks, but my fingers are tired, now.

i am surprised that an old guy like you doesn't have a voice dictation program.

[DirtDawg]

see.  this is why i am terrified to ask you questions.

Oops, I did get a little carried away there, didn't I?

There's just no short answer to the question, "Why do you need a scope or what't your sound system like?"

I barely even mentioned the deck system or the DVD system.

if you are dying to tell us about it, i am here for you, man!

Thanks, but my fingers are tired, now.

i am surprised that an old guy like you doesn't have a voice dictation program.

 

Actuallly I do! An old guy gave it to me when he updated to a newer version. I have never installed it, here, but I had it in the computer I used at the photo studio I worked at. I never used it for anything except photo notes, though. ... things like which lighting settings I had used or keeping track of which exposure had what strange thing going in a series of nearly identical shots.

[Tesla]

Cool vid!

I don't really have a professional sound system anymore, although my DVD movie rig would make a decent full range band PA for a small club of about five hundred seats if I added more power to it. It's only fifteen hundred watts, combined, but it will make you dance.....

Wow.     I wish I understood more than a quarter of that.  Sounds very impressive though.  I assume you don't live in an apartment then!  I'm waiting for the day that I'll be able to build a decent sound system.  After I had built the projector, I wanted to take the next step and build some speakers so spent some time reading http://www.diyaudio.com/ but never was able to get around to it. 

[DirtDawg]

Cool vid!

I don't really have a professional sound system anymore, although my DVD movie rig would make a decent full range band PA for a small club of about five hundred seats if I added more power to it. It's only fifteen hundred watts, combined, but it will make you dance.....

Wow.     I wish I understood more than a quarter of that.  Sounds very impressive though.  I assume you don't live in an apartment then!  I'm waiting for the day that I'll be able to build a decent sound system.  After I had built the projector, I wanted to take the next step and build some speakers so spent some time reading http://www.diyaudio.com/ but never was able to get around to it. 

I guess I misjudged your question. Happens a lot.
My system would only be truly impressive to someone who could comprehend what I have done with acoustics while working out the kinks in my open back system. I haven't really invented anything, though, except the inert outboard columns. I mainly combined "ancient" technology, ideas and math that were tossed around Bell Labs and other places in the beginning of audio reproduction, but ignored in the race for the most marketable product at the greatest profit.

DIY is a great place to find people who are trying everything they can think of, though. It's not just a bunch of kids trying to beat the price of gear by doing things themselves, although they are as common as flies over there. There are several guys there who I have a great deal of respect for and have created some interesting things as well. I haven't been active there in a very long time, but it was the first audio forum I joined. I also exchanged quite a bit of info over the years at Lansing Heritage forum, but they had some kind of hack and much of the old stuff was lost. Of course the "heritage" was easily replaced, but the conversations are gone.

If you are serious about building your own speaker system, without spending a lifetime learning shit the hard way, you should get one of the many pre-fab kits and follow the instructions. Kits are available for varying stages of hands-on abilities. Parts Express is a good place to start. First decide what you want your system to do, specifically, and how much acoustic space you need to fill up.

[DirtDawg]

Thats awesome Dawg.   I wish I was more involved in sound sometimes.   I spend too much time on games and playing acoustic (too lazy to even plug in sometimes).    I listen to music mainly in my car through the iPod via the AUX jack in the front of my stereo.   My PC speakers are 5.1 dolby and are fine for my room.   What you have is fantastic though, especially since you can take pride in making it yourself.

Wanna hear a punchline? I don't give a fuck about mobile audio. I don't even have an after market head unit in my car. I'm into live music mostly, or high quality sound, which you can not get in a car. Cars are just too noisy for decent sound without making your ears bleed.

I have built a few bad ass subwoofer boxes for acquaintances' cars, though. I'm really good with sixth order designs and getting an "SQ" sound out of them, but I would rather use them for music, not cars..

WOW, Alex!
I just looked back at what I wrote, last night and how I worded it and it could certainly have been taken by you as a ""PISS OFF!!"

That was not my meaning at all. I only meant that when I go looking for a place to listen to great music, I look away from my car, but then I have a house. I have helped many guys get their cars sorted out, but my interest lies more in the performance of live music, than in car audio.

I hope you did not think I was telling you to fuck off!
I called what I said a punchline, because many (especially car guys) see my gear and they automatically think I must have the greatest car stereo in the world, but I don't even have anything in my car. That boggles their minds, usually. Sorry for not being more clear!