This is what you call a bullshit site.

[Calavera]

Stupid in the sense that they have low IQ and can't have a good insightful discussion about anything deep.

Doesn't mean they can't act charming and be manipulative. That even the stupid ones are better than me at.

Also, it's not just one person vs. a narcissist. It's one person vs. a narcissist and the people he's manipulated.

["couldbecousin"]

Stupid in the sense that they have low IQ and can't have a good insightful discussion about anything deep.

Doesn't mean they can't act charming and be manipulative. That even the stupid ones are better than me at.

Also, it's not just one person vs. a narcissist. It's one person vs. a narcissist and the people he's manipulated.

 Ah, right, I'd forgotten.  They enlist followers.  I hope I never have to deal with one. 

[Pyraxis]

It's also harder when it's a family member or someone you're in a relationship with, because they can get you on emotional entanglement.

["couldbecousin"]

It's also harder when it's a family member or someone you're in a relationship with, because they can get you on emotional entanglement.

 That sucks.  I hope I'd be able to see through the manipulation, but I'm a bit naive. 

[Pyraxis]

Take Bernie Madoff, writing to his daughter from jail to tell her what a wonderful time he was having there. She made the mistake of thinking he cared about family connections, so she tried to hurt him by writing to him about all the good times he was missing with his grandchildren. He wrote back about how he was treated like a mafia don and a celebrity, to A) piss her off to no end (her husband had committed suicide over his actions), B) flaunt that the justice system couldn't bring him down, and C) play the media game by making his daughter look vicious and spiteful.

["couldbecousin"]

Take Bernie Madoff, writing to his daughter from jail to tell her what a wonderful time he was having there. She made the mistake of thinking he cared about family connections, so she tried to hurt him by writing to him about all the good times he was missing with his grandchildren. He wrote back about how he was treated like a mafia don and a celebrity, to A) piss her off to no end (her husband had committed suicide over his actions), B) flaunt that the justice system couldn't bring him down, and C) play the media game by making his daughter look vicious and spiteful.

 Even sicker, that's his daughter-in-law, the suicide was Madoff's own son.
 He sounds pretty cold.  How does such a person get punished then? 

[Calavera]

If there's one thing that gives me a tiny bit of relief, it's that narcissists are punished on a regular basis ... by themselves. They hate the kind of people they are so badly, but they can't help being who they are.

Imagine someone who wants to be proud of himself so badly and wants to think he really is number one in the whole universe, yet still despises himself and sees himself as a shit person, that's major suffering and torture for the narcissist.

[Pyraxis]

Even sicker, that's his daughter-in-law, the suicide was Madoff's own son.
 He sounds pretty cold.  How does such a person get punished then? 

He has been punished. He's in jail for life.

That's what I mean by emotional entanglements. The only thing worse would have been capital punishment, so he can get amusement out of inciting his daughter (-in-law; my mistake) and the rest of the public to potentially murderous rage. However to the other inmates, who feasibly could have the opportunity to kill him, he plays his charms.

Whether he charms people or not and whether he brags or not, conditions in jail are shitty and restricted. The punishment is practical rather than emotional. The natural response is to want him to feel guilt, but that will never happen (despite what he says at his sentencing for the sake of PR - notice how opposite a message that article projects than what he said to his daughter-in-law). You have to cut off the ability of people like that to affect you emotionally, or literally any contact you have with them will leave you worse off.

[Scrapheap]

There are very stupid narcissists (like my father) and there are very intelligent ones. Both types are as dangerous as each other, though.

I don't know about that. The smarter ones tend to think that they can get away with more, or they are more clever in devising things to get away with. Think about it, just imagine Ted Kaczynski as a narcissist.

[Scrapheap]

This is one video for those who wish to see an example:



I'll let others give their thoughts. All I'll say is they are both being fake.

These people are deluded. They point to the fact that narcissim in kids can be corrected (true) but they think the same process can work in adults and it doesn't. 

The wife claims that by changing her response to her husband's narcissism and no longer enabling his behavior by shielding him from the consequences of his actions with the police, for example, that ultimately caused him to change his behavior toward her.

... and I really don't buy that claim

She pointed out that when a woman leaves an abusive spouse, that she is many times more likely to be killed or injured in the first few months after leaving.

That's neither here nor there.

[Scrapheap]

If there's one thing that gives me a tiny bit of relief, it's that narcissists are punished on a regular basis ... by themselves. They hate the kind of people they are so badly, but they can't help being who they are.

Imagine someone who wants to be proud of himself so badly and wants to think he really is number one in the whole universe, yet still despises himself and sees himself as a shit person, that's major suffering and torture for the narcissist.

I hope this is true.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

If there's one thing that gives me a tiny bit of relief, it's that narcissists are punished on a regular basis ... by themselves. They hate the kind of people they are so badly, but they can't help being who they are.

Imagine someone who wants to be proud of himself so badly and wants to think he really is number one in the whole universe, yet still despises himself and sees himself as a shit person, that's major suffering and torture for the narcissist.

Well holy shit, I must be a narcissist then.

Difference is, I don't outwardly project that kind of thinking all too much, I recognize my own failures, not that I like them though.

[Calavera]

Which, I'm sure, makes you not a narcissist in the clinical sense.

Actually, I should really back that up with some sort of evidence instead of just spouting it out without basis.

[Pyraxis]

I just looked it up... narcissism is actually being taken out of the DSM-V. Instead of ten discrete personality disorders, they're rearranging them into five traits/axes which can be present to different degrees.

Antisocial/Psychopathic Type
Avoidant Type
Borderline Type
Obsessive-Compulsive Type
Schizotypal Type

Psychology Today

[renaeden]

Yeah, schizoid is being taken out too. Dang, as I like that one.

I wonder, are they just going to view narcissism as a variant of a personality type? Not something that is actually wrong?