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Author Topic: She's not so bad  (Read 2407 times)

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Offline Zippo

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2011, 08:01:49 AM »
WOW... just reading this thread makes me feel normal... i mean they said i was very high functioning but i didnt realise it was to this point.

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Offline Calavera

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2011, 08:02:47 AM »
It sounds like she is regressing and becoming more dependent on you over time, not less.

She's not only autistic but traumatized by the soap incident. Trauma makes one's autism even worse (this, I know from personal experience). This might explain the seemingly low-functioning aspect (but I'm just guessing).

Offline WolFish

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2011, 01:55:25 PM »
@renaeden and PMS Elle:
I don't do active listening because it doesn't make sense. My younger sister did it and was a very popular person, but I am likely to drift off into the dreaming and not hear anything the person is saying.

However, when I am doing crisis work I am listening carefully because to me it is like solving a mystery and better than detective work because the other person usually wants to cooperate. You can ask they to repeat and explain things and they usually don't get offended.

You have solved a mystery for me - why the clients I saw in crisis liked me so much, vs my coworkers.

I wonder if there is a way to listen to things that might otherwise be boring such that I get the same effect?

Pyrxs is really good at some things and not so good at others. It will be interesting to look at her from that perspective. We may complement each other. For example, she can look at them, but flying pigs give me a headache.

@Calavera: it would be interesting to try to discern the effects of trauma in someone who is autistic. I bet that could right a lot of wrongs. I am thinking of how some of the autistic people I worked with were offended by something, "acted out," and then got further traumatized by being restrained. Usually that was the point at which I would see them; because the staff was heaping trauma on trauma and could no longer contain the person. Figuring out how to communicate worked in many cases, like one poor guy I saw who was clawing at his ears. The staff claimed he was psychotic, the behavior was unusual and sudden and they figured he must have gone off the deep end. He was trying to tell them something. He had an ear infection. Yet they had restrained him and were ready to send him to a psychiatric hospital.

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Offline Callaway

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2011, 07:02:26 PM »
She sounds low-functioning to me - in regards to behaviour when frustrated. Honestly don't know how you can cope with having hair pulled, you are very tolerant. And it seems like the special autism school did not do much good in terms of pushing your daughter's development forward. :-\

You are right.  They did help her in some ways but not in this aspect where she needs the most help.  And you're also right about her being lower functioning in her behavior when she gets frustrated.  She's higher functioning in some other aspects of her development.  For example, she is bright and learns some things very quickly.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2011, 07:19:17 PM »
Ok, now I'm curious. In what ways is she bright and what things does she learn quickly?
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Offline Callaway

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2011, 07:22:32 PM »
It sounds like she is regressing and becoming more dependent on you over time, not less.

She's not only autistic but traumatized by the soap incident. Trauma makes one's autism even worse (this, I know from personal experience). This might explain the seemingly low-functioning aspect (but I'm just guessing).

I think that the soap in mouth and other physical abuse by that teacher is a big part of her anxiety about school, which triggers a lot of the behavior that seems lower functioning.

It might seem like a step backward for me to go to school with her, but it seemed like the best way of moving forward to me.

The old autism school was no longer able to help her advance further and they were physically managing her behavior way too much, IMO.  As far as I was able to determine, none of the other schools that were within a reasonable drive of where we live were both able and willing to help her.  I didn't want to send her away to a residential school placement even if I could have found one that would have taken her, which left only the district placement.  They wanted to start her with just two hours a day of school with two behavior specialists and build it up as she could handle it.

Before I started coming to school with her, the behavior specialists were trying to build a case that they were unable to teach her for even two hours a day, so it was either help them and teach them how my husband and I teach her, or homeschool her.  I figured that this way, at least she was exposed to more socialization and they might be able to do it themselves eventually without me as she progresses.  She's going to school for five hours a day now, so she has made progress.

Offline Callaway

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2011, 07:48:05 PM »
Ok, now I'm curious. In what ways is she bright and what things does she learn quickly?

She is very good with math and also with learning and remembering facts.

She has invented another alphabet that she uses to write things she wants kept private.  She explains that it is not really a secret code; it's a cypher.

She has invented a whole imaginary universe that your stories remind me of. 

She can read well and she has a large vocabulary.

Offline Callaway

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2011, 07:53:53 PM »
There are two problesm with being a parent of an Autistic child.
One is that there is a general expectation that child will progress in emotional and social maturity to certain designated points (most will...if they are NT) throughout their life. But these expected designated points mean nothing when factoring an autistic child. What points will they reach and will they reach them at what age? No clue. So it makes it hard to know if you are asking for what they can do with a push, what they can do but not now or what they simply can not do.
In not pushing them, are you teaching them learned helplessness and taking away their want to go the hard yards (sheltering them) or in pushing them are you expecting too much and setting them up for a fall.
The fact that we are parents and know our kids only gives us the ability to make an educated guess. That is all.

The second point is that we are oin the spectrum ourselves. I am authority to teach my boy on the intricasies of socialisation?  :hahaha: Any of my weaknessness are likely to show in him and i am supposed to demostrate a great awareness of such issues when after more than 40 years on earth, I can not myself?

There are issues here and i do not expect to presume that i have or would be expected to have the answers at my disposal. In consideration, doing the best you can is a good option

You make some very good points.

I'm doing the best I can.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2011, 08:24:14 PM »
There are two problesm with being a parent of an Autistic child.
One is that there is a general expectation that child will progress in emotional and social maturity to certain designated points (most will...if they are NT) throughout their life. But these expected designated points mean nothing when factoring an autistic child. What points will they reach and will they reach them at what age? No clue. So it makes it hard to know if you are asking for what they can do with a push, what they can do but not now or what they simply can not do.
In not pushing them, are you teaching them learned helplessness and taking away their want to go the hard yards (sheltering them) or in pushing them are you expecting too much and setting them up for a fall.
The fact that we are parents and know our kids only gives us the ability to make an educated guess. That is all.

The second point is that we are oin the spectrum ourselves. I am authority to teach my boy on the intricasies of socialisation?  :hahaha: Any of my weaknessness are likely to show in him and i am supposed to demostrate a great awareness of such issues when after more than 40 years on earth, I can not myself?

There are issues here and i do not expect to presume that i have or would be expected to have the answers at my disposal. In consideration, doing the best you can is a good option

You make some very good points.

I'm doing the best I can.

:hug: Same with me and mine.
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Offline renaeden

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2011, 08:29:15 PM »
She sounds low-functioning to me - in regards to behaviour when frustrated. Honestly don't know how you can cope with having hair pulled, you are very tolerant. And it seems like the special autism school did not do much good in terms of pushing your daughter's development forward. :-\
You are right.  They did help her in some ways but not in this aspect where she needs the most help.  And you're also right about her being lower functioning in her behavior when she gets frustrated.  She's higher functioning in some other aspects of her development.  For example, she is bright and learns some things very quickly.
That is a shame about the autism school, I know you went to a lot of trouble to get your daughter a place there. Plus all that travelling you did too.

When your daughter gets frustrated, she acts out. I realise now that I act in most of the time. Did this at school too except when picked on by other students. Then I would get into trouble for the consequences. My psych said I had some symptoms of PTSD from those experiences. Going back to school (uni) triggered some of those again.

I would bet that your daughter is better at maths than I am. :)
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Offline Callaway

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2011, 08:41:17 PM »
I also act in way more than I act out but I think my daughter is sort of the opposite.

Offline WolFish

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2011, 12:34:17 PM »
Ok, now I'm curious. In what ways is she bright and what things does she learn quickly?

She is very good with math and also with learning and remembering facts.

She has invented another alphabet that she uses to write things she wants kept private.  She explains that it is not really a secret code; it's a cypher.

She has invented a whole imaginary universe that your stories remind me of. 

She can read well and she has a large vocabulary.

Interesting. I did not have an imaginary universe when I was growing up but I had all the other things. I am fluent in my alternate alphabet; I've used it since I was 13. I struggled with my imagination until I met Pk. Her world opened up my imagination in ways I never - eh, well, in ways I never imagined. Those posts in the nanowrimo thread are a direct result of being exposed to that universe.

What is "act in?" I always have trouble with those phrases because everyone has their own interpretation of them. When I was working in crisis "act out" meant engaging in behavior that either frustrated others or that violated some social rule. I heard the term act in but never really got the meaning of it.
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Offline El

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2011, 12:41:29 PM »
Ok, now I'm curious. In what ways is she bright and what things does she learn quickly?

She is very good with math and also with learning and remembering facts.

She has invented another alphabet that she uses to write things she wants kept private.  She explains that it is not really a secret code; it's a cypher.

She has invented a whole imaginary universe that your stories remind me of. 

She can read well and she has a large vocabulary.

Interesting. I did not have an imaginary universe when I was growing up but I had all the other things. I am fluent in my alternate alphabet; I've used it since I was 13. I struggled with my imagination until I met Pk. Her world opened up my imagination in ways I never - eh, well, in ways I never imagined. Those posts in the nanowrimo thread are a direct result of being exposed to that universe.

What is "act in?" I always have trouble with those phrases because everyone has their own interpretation of them. When I was working in crisis "act out" meant engaging in behavior that either frustrated others or that violated some social rule. I heard the term act in but never really got the meaning of it.
That's only half the meaning of acting out; the other half is the implicit assumption that those behaviors are driven by some type of internal distress/discomfort/frustration/unmet need, and that "acting out" will in turn meet some kind of need on the part of the person acting out, albeit often incompletely/imperfectly/indirectly.
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Offline WolFish

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2011, 01:09:02 PM »
That's only half the meaning of acting out; the other half is the implicit assumption that those behaviors are driven by some type of internal distress/discomfort/frustration/unmet need, and that "acting out" will in turn meet some kind of need on the part of the person acting out, albeit often incompletely/imperfectly/indirectly.
yeh, I know the real meaning of the term. But in my so many odd years of work, no one used that definition, not even the high falutin psychologists who should have known it.
so what does "act in" mean?
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Offline renaeden

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Re: She's not so bad
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2011, 06:42:17 AM »
"Act in" is something I made up, was sort of surprised Callaway knew what I meant. I used it because I seem sort of the opposite to her daughter - I keep my frustration tightly inside most of the time so no one sees it or I let it out when no one is around in the form of tics/stims/other stuff that is not good for me.

When I was growing up, acting out was not acceptable and I hated any attention towards me as well so I learnt how to "act in". Couldn't do this 100% of the time though, so some acting out did happen but the majority of the time it wasn't intentional.

So that is my interpretation. Would like to know if Callaway's is similar or different to mine.
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