Eris Calls out Everyone

[Callaway]

I was going to post about my professional and personal experiences with suicide threats, attempts and results.  Not with specific information, but with my personal side of the dealing with it.  

BUT, anything I say will be lost in all the shouting.  FWIW,  informing the authorities was the right thing to do.  Speaking about it here any more is pointless.   

Thats just an outsiders opinion, take it for what it's worth.   

I would be interested in hearing it.

['Butterflies']

Except, re Pandora, it was pretty clear that most of the time it wasn't her posting, it was TCO. But I guess that is different because you were involved directly, right? Sorry eris but that just reeks of double standards to me. Maybe you don't see it, maybe you need to see both dramas from the outside? Pandora is a real person, too, one that was ganged up on without ever being on here, either, and what the fuck was she supposed to do? Believe a bunch of rude blips on her screen over a real-life person she fucking lives with? Sir Les told most of you as much, and he knows Pandora, knew her long before what happened, happened.

Except it wasn't. 

She was the one who spoke badly about people here, on a completely different website where they weren't around to defend themselves.  That's not honourable at all.  Sir Les being friends with her, doesn't automatically make her a nice person either.  Don't see why you're using her as an example in this.  The parakeet case is a better one.

How do you know? TCO admitted to having done this more than once.

As for speaking badly about people on a completely different website (here), I do believe that Butterflies started that particular campaign. She then made it clear that she didn't particularly regret it.

Why did I pick this as an example? Simply because it is fresh in people's minds, because personal information about both her and TCO WAS posted here, including photos, and I just don't see the difference other than in the details.

How is ANY of this honourable? Just to be perfectly clear on this, I think posting personal information, including photos, without that person's approval is not honourable when the objective is to piss that person off, and I really don't give a shit about how it's justified.

This is certainly not how I see things.

I never started any campaign against Pandora. I said some stuff about her to get a response from Steve. He said plenty of far worse things about my family to get a response from me, but I'm hardly going to accuse him of starting a campaign against my family.

By the time I did start interacting with Pandora, she did seem to have a fairly full-on campaign against me, but I certainly did not ever start any campaign against her.

I find this quite absurd in fact.

[ῦ]

Actually, my primary complaint is with Skyblue, but I think you are acting petty and should be more professional since that is your role. I am sure it is not AFF's policy to run to I2 and complain about stuff.

I gave my professional opinion and defended it; For what it's worth, I've yet to see anybody with actual experience in these situations disagree with it.

Petty in what regard?

I may be an admin of AFF, but that does not mean I have to always wear my modhat, and I would argue that expecting me to do so is, to use your own words, petty. If I say something at AFF, it's official, carries weight and is often considered policy. If I say something here, it's just another voice in the madness.

Psychophant, I'd also like to hear what you have to say.

*edit*

We appear to have some guests spectating.

[Callaway]

Except, re Pandora, it was pretty clear that most of the time it wasn't her posting, it was TCO. But I guess that is different because you were involved directly, right? Sorry eris but that just reeks of double standards to me. Maybe you don't see it, maybe you need to see both dramas from the outside? Pandora is a real person, too, one that was ganged up on without ever being on here, either, and what the fuck was she supposed to do? Believe a bunch of rude blips on her screen over a real-life person she fucking lives with? Sir Les told most of you as much, and he knows Pandora, knew her long before what happened, happened.

Except it wasn't. 

She was the one who spoke badly about people here, on a completely different website where they weren't around to defend themselves.  That's not honourable at all.  Sir Les being friends with her, doesn't automatically make her a nice person either.  Don't see why you're using her as an example in this.  The parakeet case is a better one.

How do you know? TCO admitted to having done this more than once.

As for speaking badly about people on a completely different website (here), I do believe that Butterflies started that particular campaign. She then made it clear that she didn't particularly regret it.

Why did I pick this as an example? Simply because it is fresh in people's minds, because personal information about both her and TCO WAS posted here, including photos, and I just don't see the difference other than in the details.

How is ANY of this honourable? Just to be perfectly clear on this, I think posting personal information, including photos, without that person's approval is not honourable when the objective is to piss that person off, and I really don't give a shit about how it's justified.

This is certainly not how I see things.

I never started any campaign against Pandora. I said some stuff about her to get a response from Steve. He said plenty of far worse things about my family to get a response from me, but I'm hardly going to accuse him of starting a campaign against my family.

By the time I did start interacting with Pandora, she did seem to have a fairly full-on campaign against me, but I certainly did not ever start any campaign against her.

I find this quite absurd in fact.

Except that what "she" said may have actually come from TCO.  Much of the phrasing "she" used sounded like him.

[eris]

you can argue that you are a mod and have responsibility to react, or you can argue you are just a member and not required to act as a mod. not both.

[bodie]

I am still trying to work out where the posts are which eris refers to?  i am crap at keeping up!

Pandora and Parakeet were not suicidal,  or were they?   i think the driving force behind this badly named callout is the suicide bit.   Now i do think the 'right' thing to do is 'alert the authorities'  yes definitely a moral obligation.  But.... reading between the lines (and i have to admit i haven't read the lines yet)  it appears that it is not a case of alerting the authorities and being supportive,   but rather alerting the authorities and being 'haha' or 'ner ner na ner ner' which if you look at it morally is a bit shitty.  Not saying that is how it is,  but that is how it looks.

Suicide stuff is dodgy.  Have known plenty who have talked about it,  but one new years day one of my mates just did it. Out of the blue.  No warning,  no cries for help.  Just gone.


Suicide hoaxes are 

[eris]

I do think the reason some people wanted to alert the authorities was to simply get him in trouble and go na na na na na na , and thats the #1 reason why I got upset.

[Callaway]

you can argue that you are a mod and have responsibility to react, or you can argue you are just a member and not required to act as a mod. not both.

I don't see why only mods have some moral responsibility to act.  Anyone with enough information to help the person could feel moral responsibility and act on it, IMO.

I was curious if this possibly suicidal person was already a member here, perhaps under another name.

If this guy said that he was suicidal only as a means to gain sympathy and win some internet argument, then that's low because he had to know that many people take suicide threats like that very seriously.  If the authorities were alerted and he got into some trouble if it turned out to be a hoax he perpetrated, then wouldn't that responsibility be on him for lying about suicide in the first place?

[ῦ]

I do think the reason some people wanted to alert the authorities was to simply get him in trouble and go na na na na na na , and thats the #1 reason why I got upset.

I think that threats of suicide should ALWAYS be taken seriously, regardless of the person. If they get into trouble because they're lying and they did it to manipulate, they fucking deserve to.

I have no interest in being personally supportive to TamMan - he has attempted to fuck me over and is openly hostile to things I have invested a great deal of trouble in - but my principles and my morals say that authorities should be contacted regardless of the subject in question.

you can argue that you are a mod and have responsibility to react, or you can argue you are just a member and not required to act as a mod. not both.

I only have that responsibility on AFF, where I do my level best to act professionally, and I defy you if you think I have to act like that everywhere on the internet.

[eris]

you can argue that you are a mod and have responsibility to react, or you can argue you are just a member and not required to act as a mod. not both.

I don't see why only mods have some moral responsibility to act.  Anyone with enough information to help the person could feel moral responsibility and act on it, IMO.

I was curious if this possibly suicidal person was already a member here, perhaps under another name.

If this guy said that he was suicidal only as a means to gain sympathy and win some internet argument, then that's low because he had to know that many people take suicide threats like that very seriously.  If the authorities were alerted and he got into some trouble if it turned out to be a hoax he perpetrated, then wouldn't that responsibility be on him for lying about suicide in the first place?

I do not think they really should have a moral responsibility to act as a moderator. That was Pikajedi's position, that as a mod it was his job.

I do not think the police would do anything really either, but it was skyblue that said he already contacted the authorities and is waiting for an arrest warrant.

And that why why I got involved. This is no longer an internet drama, people are messing with his life.

[eris]

I do think the reason some people wanted to alert the authorities was to simply get him in trouble and go na na na na na na , and thats the #1 reason why I got upset.

I think that threats of suicide should ALWAYS be taken seriously, regardless of the person. If they get into trouble because they're lying and they did it to manipulate, they fucking deserve to.

I have no interest in being personally supportive to TamMan - he has attempted to fuck me over and is openly hostile to things I have invested a great deal of trouble in - but my principles and my morals say that authorities should be contacted regardless of the subject in question.

you can argue that you are a mod and have responsibility to react, or you can argue you are just a member and not required to act as a mod. not both.

I only have that responsibility on AFF, where I do my level best to act professionally, and I defy you if you think I have to act like that everywhere on the internet.

so when questioned about the suicide attempt you are allowed to wear the mod hat, but can take it off at any time to say personal opinions ?

[ῦ]

I do not think they really should have a moral responsibility to act as a moderator. That was Pikajedi's position, that as a mod it was his job.

You have misunderstood my position; I did not specify "as a mod".

so when questioned about the suicide attempt you are allowed to wear the mod hat, but can take it off at any time to say personal opinions ?

...That WAS a personal opinion.

And yes, I can. I'm not a moderator here, I'm under no obligation to behave like one. I will wear the modhat when answering questions about the site I run, and that's about it. And oh yes, look, I came into this discussion answering a question and an accusation about the site I run, look at that.

[eris]

You mean you did not post several times of AFF policy of what you had to do becase someone actually did this before ?

Also, I agree you do not have a responsibility to be a mod here. Thats why it is so silly when you keep flip-flopping your "official" position on this.

['Butterflies']

Except, re Pandora, it was pretty clear that most of the time it wasn't her posting, it was TCO. But I guess that is different because you were involved directly, right? Sorry eris but that just reeks of double standards to me. Maybe you don't see it, maybe you need to see both dramas from the outside? Pandora is a real person, too, one that was ganged up on without ever being on here, either, and what the fuck was she supposed to do? Believe a bunch of rude blips on her screen over a real-life person she fucking lives with? Sir Les told most of you as much, and he knows Pandora, knew her long before what happened, happened.

Except it wasn't. 

She was the one who spoke badly about people here, on a completely different website where they weren't around to defend themselves.  That's not honourable at all.  Sir Les being friends with her, doesn't automatically make her a nice person either.  Don't see why you're using her as an example in this.  The parakeet case is a better one.

How do you know? TCO admitted to having done this more than once.

As for speaking badly about people on a completely different website (here), I do believe that Butterflies started that particular campaign. She then made it clear that she didn't particularly regret it.

Why did I pick this as an example? Simply because it is fresh in people's minds, because personal information about both her and TCO WAS posted here, including photos, and I just don't see the difference other than in the details.

How is ANY of this honourable? Just to be perfectly clear on this, I think posting personal information, including photos, without that person's approval is not honourable when the objective is to piss that person off, and I really don't give a shit about how it's justified.

This is certainly not how I see things.

I never started any campaign against Pandora. I said some stuff about her to get a response from Steve. He said plenty of far worse things about my family to get a response from me, but I'm hardly going to accuse him of starting a campaign against my family.

By the time I did start interacting with Pandora, she did seem to have a fairly full-on campaign against me, but I certainly did not ever start any campaign against her.

I find this quite absurd in fact.

Except that what "she" said may have actually come from TCO.  Much of the phrasing "she" used sounded like him.

If you're right, then Steve started the campaign against me in her name.

TBH, I'm not really sure that was Steve pretending to be Pandora all the time on FB. You say that some of the speech paterns could only have came from Steve, and you are probably right, but at the same time, some of her comments sounded completely unlike Steve. Also, she was making other FB posts at the time on unrelated subjects, and sounding nothing like Steve.

I am convinced they were both totally involved and posting. I think that her being unaware of what's going on is the least likely outcome, as she appears to be a regular FB user, and it would probably be near impossible for Steve to hide the fact that he has been making posts in her name.

[Psychophant]

Actually, my primary complaint is with Skyblue, but I think you are acting petty and should be more professional since that is your role. I am sure it is not AFF's policy to run to I2 and complain about stuff.

I gave my professional opinion and defended it; For what it's worth, I've yet to see anybody with actual experience in these situations disagree with it.

Petty in what regard?

I may be an admin of AFF, but that does not mean I have to always wear my modhat, and I would argue that expecting me to do so is, to use your own words, petty. If I say something at AFF, it's official, carries weight and is often considered policy. If I say something here, it's just another voice in the madness.

Psychophant, I'd also like to hear what you have to say.

*edit*

We appear to have some guests spectating.

My psychospoiledbratbitch-ex-girlfriend did it to me and we got to her house, cops, ambulance her parents, the works.....what did we find,......a drunken, LAUGHING cunt who was howling with laughter at her "clever" manipulation.  She called me first, I called the the cops and the ambulance crew (I was off duty, but am back on duty since my injury--with restrictions), then her parents.   Well, when the facts became known.....I was furious, she was always good at manipulating others and had pulled this before with her parents.   This was the first time it was done with full public knowledge.  Mommy and Daddy always covered for her.  Now her parents were there with us and humiliated before all the town.  Now I had told my girlfriend (the cop) about her past and what she had done to me and others.   After this I felt no more compunctions about revealing her past behaviors to the cops and her parents.   She put lives at risk for her ego and need of attention.  I'm still furious and am seeing red as I write this.  So I'll stop here and step out.  Before I say any more.