The reason for my (lack of) hostility towards Benji

[MLA]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Misguided passion vs logic.  I declare logic the winner 

[Gopher Gary]

I take it you are a nationalistic gopher?

I blame my nationalism on my patriotism. 

[benjimanbreeg]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Let Pappy answer himself.  Where does it say that the whole nation hates Muslims?  I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say, even though it's like half of the country is "liberal" and "left wing".  I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties. 

[Jack]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Let Pappy answer himself.  Where does it say that the whole nation hates Muslims?  I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say, even though it's like half of the country is "liberal" and "left wing".  I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Can post whatever I want, and Pappy is free to answer you if he wishes. The article refers to hate crime as a miasma, which implies an general oppressive stench in the air, stating specific instances of murderous hate crime have sent a message which has convinced millions of people their values are defendable at all costs, and portrays nations as speaking a language of violence which manifests as acts of violence and governments are slow to condemn those who do it. That's a lot more eloquent than saying it's pervasive, but the message is still there. You didn't specifically say the world or a country hates muslims, but you did say the average man on the street thinks of them mainly as terrorist. Have gotten the impression Nationalism and Patriotism don't mean the same thing in the US as other countries; they're not really synonymous with racism or separatism, so not viewed as a negative thing and there's a lot of it. So sometimes think people mistake national pride and patriotism in Americans as something it isn't. Understand why you used the article, and agree, in the US 9/11 is the reason for the increase in muslim victimization, but don't necessarily believe it stands out different or worse, or even much more likely, than any other minority victimization. Wouldn't be surprised if it's more of a problem in the UK than the US, because the US has long been ethnically diverse and multicultural, but European countries have a long history of being difficult for outsiders to gain permanent access or citizenship and now that's changed.

[Jack]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Misguided passion vs logic.  I declare logic the winner 

Am not really in this discussion to win. The average muslim, or any minority group, could probably use all the advocacy they can get, even if it sometimes strikes me as something like reverse racism. Benjamin is indeed passionate and this is the reason for my (lack of) hostility toward Benji.

[Jack]

I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Why only think about it instead of knowing? Seems like a lot more than catching up when considering hate crime stats. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2014-to-2015  In the 2014 data table document, table 2 shows 52,528 total annual instances recorded by police. Though to be fair, that crazy number could be related to a difference in the definition of hate crime from the US, and don't care to research if there is one. So to be fair, table 2_5 shows 9% of the total hate crime was related to violence with injury, so when only considering violent injurious acts of hate crime, that's 4,727 total violent hate crime incidents. The US table posted before has an annual grand total of 5,479 incidents, that's not factoring out the non-violent, and the US population is over five times larger than England and Wales. The first link for the annual report states muslims are included with 'other' religious group, but people who select muslim or other are the higher victimized religious group. Didn't see a religious data table to support that statement. Though table 2_5 also shows 7% of all religious hate crime was related to violence with injury, which is 227 incidents according to the religious totals on table 2, which makes violent religious motivation very statistically similar to US religious grand totals of 1,014. Table 2_5 also shows 8% of racially motivated hate crime was related to violence with injury, which is 3,434 instances according to the racial totals in table 2, while the US tables show a total of 2,568 racially motivated hate crimes.

[Jack]

The first link for the annual report states muslims are included with 'other' religious group, but people who select muslim or other are the higher victimized religious group. Didn't see a religious data table to support that statement.

Found the muslims; they're in the link for the appendix tables, and they do separate muslims from other, though muslims and other rate equal to each other and higher than all other religious groups. Table 4_09 shows muslims account for 1.2% of total hate crime, which would be 630 instances based on table 2 from the first set of tables, and then factoring the previous 9% violence with injury fairness rate, would be 56 instances, which is almost statistically twice the muslim total of 158 for the US.

[benjimanbreeg]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Let Pappy answer himself.  Where does it say that the whole nation hates Muslims?  I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say, even though it's like half of the country is "liberal" and "left wing".  I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Can post whatever I want, and Pappy is free to answer you if he wishes. The article refers to hate crime as a miasma, which implies an general oppressive stench in the air, stating specific instances of murderous hate crime have sent a message which has convinced millions of people their values are defendable at all costs, and portrays nations as speaking a language of violence which manifests as acts of violence and governments are slow to condemn those who do it. That's a lot more eloquent than saying it's pervasive, but the message is still there. You didn't specifically say the world or a country hates muslims, but you did say the average man on the street thinks of them mainly as terrorist. Have gotten the impression Nationalism and Patriotism don't mean the same thing in the US as other countries; they're not really synonymous with racism or separatism, so not viewed as a negative thing and there's a lot of it. So sometimes think people mistake national pride and patriotism in Americans as something it isn't. Understand why you used the article, and agree, in the US 9/11 is the reason for the increase in muslim victimization, but don't necessarily believe it stands out different or worse, or even much more likely, than any other minority victimization. Wouldn't be surprised if it's more of a problem in the UK than the US, because the US has long been ethnically diverse and multicultural, but European countries have a long history of being difficult for outsiders to gain permanent access or citizenship and now that's changed.

The only genuine nationalism in the US comes from the Native Americans.   I'd also say that Africans have more right to the country over Europeans.  I'm not exactly sure what the US has to be proud about.  Really?  Trump's success seems to have come from his anti-Muslim stance.  And look at all the wars involving the US against the Muslim world which around half the country supports.  Also the way viewers were crying and clapping at the end of "American Sniper" around the country.  The people of the US have always been coerced into hating/being scared of their main 'enemies". 

[benjimanbreeg]

I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Why only think about it instead of knowing? Seems like a lot more than catching up when considering hate crime stats. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2014-to-2015  In the 2014 data table document, table 2 shows 52,528 total annual instances recorded by police. Though to be fair, that crazy number could be related to a difference in the definition of hate crime from the US, and don't care to research if there is one. So to be fair, table 2_5 shows 9% of the total hate crime was related to violence with injury, so when only considering violent injurious acts of hate crime, that's 4,727 total violent hate crime incidents. The US table posted before has an annual grand total of 5,479 incidents, that's not factoring out the non-violent, and the US population is over five times larger than England and Wales. The first link for the annual report states muslims are included with 'other' religious group, but people who select muslim or other are the higher victimized religious group. Didn't see a religious data table to support that statement. Though table 2_5 also shows 7% of all religious hate crime was related to violence with injury, which is 227 incidents according to the religious totals on table 2, which makes violent religious motivation very statistically similar to US religious grand totals of 1,014. Table 2_5 also shows 8% of racially motivated hate crime was related to violence with injury, which is 3,434 instances according to the racial totals in table 2, while the US tables show a total of 2,568 racially motivated hate crimes.

Even though I used "hate crime" statistics in my original post, I believe the term shouldn't even exist.  A crime is a crime, it doesn't become worse because of the person's religion or race etc. 

[odeon]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Let Pappy answer himself.  Where does it say that the whole nation hates Muslims?  I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say, even though it's like half of the country is "liberal" and "left wing".  I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Can post whatever I want, and Pappy is free to answer you if he wishes. The article refers to hate crime as a miasma, which implies an general oppressive stench in the air, stating specific instances of murderous hate crime have sent a message which has convinced millions of people their values are defendable at all costs, and portrays nations as speaking a language of violence which manifests as acts of violence and governments are slow to condemn those who do it. That's a lot more eloquent than saying it's pervasive, but the message is still there. You didn't specifically say the world or a country hates muslims, but you did say the average man on the street thinks of them mainly as terrorist. Have gotten the impression Nationalism and Patriotism don't mean the same thing in the US as other countries; they're not really synonymous with racism or separatism, so not viewed as a negative thing and there's a lot of it. So sometimes think people mistake national pride and patriotism in Americans as something it isn't. Understand why you used the article, and agree, in the US 9/11 is the reason for the increase in muslim victimization, but don't necessarily believe it stands out different or worse, or even much more likely, than any other minority victimization. Wouldn't be surprised if it's more of a problem in the UK than the US, because the US has long been ethnically diverse and multicultural, but European countries have a long history of being difficult for outsiders to gain permanent access or citizenship and now that's changed.

The only genuine nationalism in the US comes from the Native Americans.   I'd also say that Africans have more right to the country over Europeans.  I'm not exactly sure what the US has to be proud about.  Really?  Trump's success seems to have come from his anti-Muslim stance.  And look at all the wars involving the US against the Muslim world which around half the country supports.  Also the way viewers were crying and clapping at the end of "American Sniper" around the country.  The people of the US have always been coerced into hating/being scared of their main 'enemies".

How many generations do you think is the absolute minimum for genuine nationalism?

[Yuri Bezmenov]

I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say,

The US has been intolerant of Islamic bullshit from the very beginning.

In the early 1800's all European powers were paying ransom money to the Barbary Pirates (because they love the taste of Arab cocks ) but the U.S. didn't stand for that shit.

Thomas Jefferson sent in the Marines and kicked their asses. 

[Jack]

Even though I used "hate crime" statistics in my original post, I believe the term shouldn't even exist.  A crime is a crime, it doesn't become worse because of the person's religion or race etc.

Absolutely agree with that.

[benjimanbreeg]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.

Let Pappy answer himself.  Where does it say that the whole nation hates Muslims?  I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say, even though it's like half of the country is "liberal" and "left wing".  I do think Europe is catching up though, just look at the rise in votes for plastic nationalist parties.

Can post whatever I want, and Pappy is free to answer you if he wishes. The article refers to hate crime as a miasma, which implies an general oppressive stench in the air, stating specific instances of murderous hate crime have sent a message which has convinced millions of people their values are defendable at all costs, and portrays nations as speaking a language of violence which manifests as acts of violence and governments are slow to condemn those who do it. That's a lot more eloquent than saying it's pervasive, but the message is still there. You didn't specifically say the world or a country hates muslims, but you did say the average man on the street thinks of them mainly as terrorist. Have gotten the impression Nationalism and Patriotism don't mean the same thing in the US as other countries; they're not really synonymous with racism or separatism, so not viewed as a negative thing and there's a lot of it. So sometimes think people mistake national pride and patriotism in Americans as something it isn't. Understand why you used the article, and agree, in the US 9/11 is the reason for the increase in muslim victimization, but don't necessarily believe it stands out different or worse, or even much more likely, than any other minority victimization. Wouldn't be surprised if it's more of a problem in the UK than the US, because the US has long been ethnically diverse and multicultural, but European countries have a long history of being difficult for outsiders to gain permanent access or citizenship and now that's changed.

The only genuine nationalism in the US comes from the Native Americans.   I'd also say that Africans have more right to the country over Europeans.  I'm not exactly sure what the US has to be proud about.  Really?  Trump's success seems to have come from his anti-Muslim stance.  And look at all the wars involving the US against the Muslim world which around half the country supports.  Also the way viewers were crying and clapping at the end of "American Sniper" around the country.  The people of the US have always been coerced into hating/being scared of their main 'enemies".

How many generations do you think is the absolute minimum for genuine nationalism?

Perhaps you should ask that to "African Americans". 

[benjimanbreeg]

I just used the article to show that 9/11 stemmed the modern day Muslim hating, didn't say the whole country or world hates them but the US is definitely the worst for that i'd say,

The US has been intolerant of Islamic bullshit from the very beginning.

In the early 1800's all European powers were paying ransom money to the Barbary Pirates (because they love the taste of Arab cocks ) but the U.S. didn't stand for that shit.

Thomas Jefferson sent in the Marines and kicked their asses. 

The US loves war and will happily support the worst Islamic countries for their own means.  Not very intolerant of the Saudis are they?   

[Jack]

The only genuine nationalism in the US comes from the Native Americans. 

The native americans and amish are the only groups in the US allowed to be separatists, and they're a small portion of the population so their variety of nationalism doesn't represent what nationalism means in the US. Separatist forms nationalism place value on preserving the uniqueness of a specific group by means of separation. Civic nationalism places value on preserving the freedoms and rights of a nation's citizenship. Nationalists in the US are people who place value the founding principles of the United States, and appose government actions which conflict with those principles and oppress the republic for which it stands. As said before, Nationalism in the US doesn't seem to mean the same thing as some other places.