The right to bear arms

[Litigious]

The police and the army have guns now, but does that stop the mafia and motorcycle gangs?

[McGiver]

I didn't call her specifically a coward, either, but I called pacifists in general "cowards". I didn't mean to be rude to her personally, though.

time of month.
still i think she is a sweetheart.

[odeon]

Odeon should be very aware of this, since we both live near the second largets city in Sweden and he lives even closer to it than I do. It's smaller than Washington, D.C., but there is about one car bomb a week and constantly criminals threatening and blackmailing restaurant owners etc. and using hand grenades and machine guns if they don't get their money...

One car bomb per week? This would make about 52 bombs every year, which is not true and you know it. However, in the last few weeks there have been 3-4 such incidents. Over the last year, perhaps some more.

Constant threats and blackmail against restaurant owners? Hand grenades and machine guns? There's been one restaurant owner in Göteborg who's been subjected to a lot of that, but which others do you know of? Do you have the relevant statistics handy?

Quite honestly, it would appear that we don't live near the same large city.

The police and the army have guns now, but does that stop the mafia and motorcycle gangs?

Sweden doesn't have mafia-like organizations to any significant extent, according to most sources (the justice department, a recent study, the police...). Organized crime in Sweden tends instead to be loosely knit networks that are very flexible in nature, meaning that there is no strict organization in place, as would be the case with the mafia. The motorcycle gangs you mention, for example, are not comparable with the mafia, but they can be a big problem where they occur.

According to a recent study, stopping organized crime is largely an organizational and judicial problem, not one one pertaining to guns. That part seems to work.

[Litigious]

Odeon, you're trusting the authorities far too much.

There have been several incidents with restaurant owners blackmailed, but this family got the most attention, becaused it happened to them again and again. Very few people have actually been hurt though, creds to the scum bags that they did it when most people were sleeping.

No, not 52 bombs per year, but in the last month it has been about one bomb a week. I don't find that acceptable in any respect.

But the "mafia" isn't like the one in the US or even in Eastern Europe, thank God. Yet.

[QuirkyCarla]

Carla, i do not recall calling you names for having a different point of view.  i remember +1 you for having an opinion.

I wasn't referring to you in my post. I was referring mainly to this post:

Uh, it's just a karma system on a website...it can't really be compared to suicide bombings and/or whatever else you're referring to. Also, that's quite a generalization. Finally, I thought what you said was rude since you were basically saying I don't deserve security or freedom. When people are rude to me, I minus them. It's what the karma system is for.

You're passing the task of armed protection onto mercenaries (Police). If you're dumb enough to do that, you deserve to be bullied by those whom you have empowered.

and partly to Litigious. Thank you Litigious for clarifying what you meant.

I'm going to try to make this short, because I have a lot of schoolwork I need to get done.The right to bear arms is a very controversial issue, just like abortion, the death penalty, etc. I would appreciate if people who support the ownership of firearms not to call me dumb or imply that I'm dumb (or a "coward") simply because I disagree. As odeon said, it's best to simply agree to disagree, since no one is going to change anyone's minds. It just bothered me that litigous kept bringing it up, and McJagger mentioned it too, so that is why I decided to resurrect it and say my bit.

As I said before, I respect the opinions of those who are pro-guns; all I ask is that my OPINION be respected as well. This is a matter of opinions, not right or wrong...I don't think there is a right or wrong with controversial issues such as this one. Personally, I'm biased since as a future teacher, I care strongly about the safety of children. Did you know that in the state of New Jersey it is difficult to get a gun legally? You usually have to be a police officer orsomeone who is or used to be in the military to own a pistol. I know some people who go hunting and own shot guns, but it's pretty rare in this state, unlike the majority of the country. Also I have some online friends in New Zealand, where firearms are very illegal, and they don't see a need for them. I used to be pretty conflicted on the gun issue, and recently decided that I'm more against them.

But anyway, I've admitted I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm merely defending my position, and I respect your positions as well. Just please do not insult me just because I disagree.

Those are all very good points, QuirkyCarla.  Nobody should insult anyone for having a different opinion about any issue.

Some issues I think are very emotional ones for some people, so maybe they go overboard defending their opinions about these issues.

I know I am emotional about some issues, like rape for example, and I could easily go overboard defending my opinion if someone said that they thought rape was a good idea and we should have more of it.

Thank you, Callaway.

[Scrapheap]

No guns = no gun-related deaths or injuries.

What is it about this concept that makes it so hard?

That is a common bumper sticker argument around here for people who want to outlaw guns, Odeon.  The rebuttal, seen on many bumper stickers, is:

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

And the police. And the army.

Government in most cases is little more than a criminal orginisation that declares itself legal and legitimate.

Think about it. How many things do the police/military/government do that is illegal for anyone else to do??

It's a simple case of "Do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm allowed to do to you, that which you are'nt allowed to do to me".

If not for rank hypocricy, most governmets could'nt operate.

[Litigious]

Government in most cases is little more than a criminal orginisation that declares itself legal and legitimate.

Think about it. How many things do the police/military/government do that is illegal for anyone else to do??

It's a simple case of "Do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm allowed to do to you, that which you are'nt allowed to do to me".

If not for rank hypocricy, most governmets could'nt operate.

Amen. But most of my naïve countrymen and some of yours simply won't get that.

[odeon]

Government in most cases is little more than a criminal orginisation that declares itself legal and legitimate.

Think about it. How many things do the police/military/government do that is illegal for anyone else to do??

It's a simple case of "Do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm allowed to do to you, that which you are'nt allowed to do to me".

If not for rank hypocricy, most governmets could'nt operate.

Amen. But most of my naïve countrymen and some of yours simply won't get that.

It's called "democracy". I'm sure you've heard of it. The system isn't perfect but it beats the hell out of anarchism. Which is what you two seem to be leaning towards.

Naivety comes in many flavours, eh?

[Litigious]

Perhaps. 

[odeon]

 

[McGiver]

Government in most cases is little more than a criminal orginisation that declares itself legal and legitimate.

Think about it. How many things do the police/military/government do that is illegal for anyone else to do??

It's a simple case of "Do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm allowed to do to you, that which you are'nt allowed to do to me".

If not for rank hypocricy, most governmets could'nt operate.

Amen. But most of my naïve countrymen and some of yours simply won't get that.

It's called "democracy". I'm sure you've heard of it. The system isn't perfect but it beats the hell out of anarchism. Which is what you two seem to be leaning towards.

Naivety comes in many flavours, eh?

i didn't realize that we were talking about anarchism.
now i am completely on board.

[Litigious]

i didn't realize that we were talking about anarchism.
now i am completely on board.

We didn't exactly talk about anarchism, but on the other hand, yes, I think modern "democracy" actually is a fraud. It's not the will of the people that is brought out, it's the will of politicians and buinessmen.

[McGiver]

i will agree that it is the will of big business.  the politicians are mere puppets, and the populace are mere sheep.
money rules.

[QuirkyCarla]

It pisses me off that we can have guns, but absinthe is illegal and the drinking age is 21. The US really isn't that free. Most countries allow their citizens to drink at 18. At least I turn 21 in a little less than 2 months and can get some absinthe when I go to Australia, though. 

[Scrapheap]

[
I wasn't referring to you in my post. I was referring mainly to this post:

You're passing the task of armed protection onto mercenaries (Police). If you're dumb enough to do that, you deserve to be bullied by those whom you have empowered.

To clarify my post, I wasn't calling YOU dumb I was calling your ACTIONS dumb. There's a difference.
I simply think that when people do dumb things, the need to suffer the consequences. Pain is a great teacher.


To illistrate my point, think of every type of prohibition that has been tried.

Prohibition of Alcohol = made orginised crime entrenched and wealthy.

Prohibition of Pot= made whoever could grow and sell it wealthy

Prohibition of Cocaine= made Columbian street thugs wealthier than kings

Prohibition of Abortion (Romania) = created massive population of orphans who when they became teenagers, created massive crime wave that toppled government.

Prohibition (extreme taxation) of Tobacco= Making Canadian smugglers rich by selling cheap (tax free) ciggarets in US.


Is anyone else seeing a pattern here?? ANYONE??  Bueller??? Bueller???