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Offline Adam

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2011, 03:52:15 AM »
Why does it matter to you though? I mean you don't have to "trick yourself" into anything
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2011, 04:03:30 AM »
Because I would feel uncomfortable with it.
I think that it is also equally pointless in calling someone I know is biologically a she a he or visa versa.
I think that as much as me not making a fuss or their choice or preference and allowing them to be who or what they are or perceive themselves to be, and treating them in the social conformation they chose (lumps and all) I ought not feel obliged or have it placed on me to HAVE to call them a she when I know them not to be so.
Mutual respect of choices I guess
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I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Adam

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2011, 04:06:12 AM »
What is gender to you then? XX/XY? penis/vagina?
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2011, 05:28:07 AM »
Soph I am not sure it really matters as you will likely say "Well in this example, by your reasoning, "X" so therefore you should "Y" ". The truth is I don't need to take on any definitions to fit in with any preconception of what you believe I  should think.
If someone is born a girl I will see them as a girl and later in life after puberty as a woman.
Now along the way they may identify as a man or a boy or a martian. I don't really care.
I will allow them to believe what they believe or identify as. I will not believe them to be what they believe they are.
I will respect the fact that they identify strongly with what they identify as and live and let live. I see no real point in trying to find flaws in my want to believe what I believe. Nor will I try to sway their belief.
If someone was to say for example. "I am heterosexual" and I found out that they do or have experimented with sex with the same sex then that defines them in my view as not heterosexual but bi-sexual. They can disclaim this as narrow thinking on my part or argue til they are black and blue that they are "100% hetero" and that any previous, present or future sexual forays with the same sex are to be discounted from my assessment of things.
That doesn't mean I should change my mind.
Where does that leave things? Well it comes down to this; does my rationale harm them? Is it inconsistent? Does it mean I view anyone else as lesser or worse? Is this demeaning? I think the answer in all respects is no.
I am sure that anyone demanding respect for their beliefs in this matter will be more than happy to extend the same for someone who holds reasonable and differing views.
What do you think Soph?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 07:09:02 AM by Sir_Les_Patterson »
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I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Adam

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2011, 12:35:25 PM »
Do you see me as being dishonest?


I guess I just don't understand why it's a problem for some people

Personally I think it is demeaning yes - I would never refer to a woman as "he" just because she had been born male or was XY. It would feel rude and disrespectful
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2011, 01:21:36 AM »
Quote from: Infidel on January 23, 2011, 12:35:25 PM
Do you see me as being dishonest?


I guess I just don't understand why it's a problem for some people

Personally I think it is demeaning yes - I would never refer to a woman as "he" just because she had been born male or was XY. It would feel rude and disrespectful

I think you are identifying with something that you feel and is true and important for you. Is that dishonest? Nope.

I identify very strongly with being an Aussie. This is far more than me knowing or appreciating that I was born in Australia. I identify and associate very strongly to many things real, true or not that associate with "being an Aussie". It doesn't matter a damn if I am viewing these things under bias or rose coloured glasses or whether my concept is weird or different to every other Aussie alive or dead. It is important to me and I don't give a damn who shares that with me. It is personal.

I think it would be rude and disrespectful for anyone to judge me unkindly for not agreeing to call them the pronoun associated with anything other than their biological makeup/birth. I think that is forcing their concepts of gender on me. I think I ought to be entitled to my position.

Why should it matter? I am sure a transexual's identity and position is a personal one. Why would they care or think to change anyone else's position on how they must address and identify with them?
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I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Zippo

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2011, 08:48:19 AM »
Quote from: Sir_Les_Patterson on January 24, 2011, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: Infidel on January 23, 2011, 12:35:25 PM
Do you see me as being dishonest?


I guess I just don't understand why it's a problem for some people

Personally I think it is demeaning yes - I would never refer to a woman as "he" just because she had been born male or was XY. It would feel rude and disrespectful

I think you are identifying with something that you feel and is true and important for you. Is that dishonest? Nope.

I identify very strongly with being an Aussie. This is far more than me knowing or appreciating that I was born in Australia. I identify and associate very strongly to many things real, true or not that associate with "being an Aussie". It doesn't matter a damn if I am viewing these things under bias or rose coloured glasses or whether my concept is weird or different to every other Aussie alive or dead. It is important to me and I don't give a damn who shares that with me. It is personal.

I think it would be rude and disrespectful for anyone to judge me unkindly for not agreeing to call them the pronoun associated with anything other than their biological makeup/birth. I think that is forcing their concepts of gender on me. I think I ought to be entitled to my position.

Why should it matter? I am sure a transexual's identity and position is a personal one. Why would they care or think to change anyone else's position on how they must address and identify with them?

im going to have to go with sir_les on this one. if someone respectfully asked me to refer to them as a girl/boy when he/she was of the opposite physical gender i would have no problem with doing so. but if the opinion that they were to be forced apon me and they demanded me to refer to them as say a girl i would be more likely to say "heh your a boy, DEAL WITH IT B*TCH" i am somewhat of a asshole though
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if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!

Offline Squidusa

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2011, 09:17:12 AM »
I geuinely can't think of anything intelligent to add to this conversation , so I'll just say...




http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,16325.0.html

 :autism:
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Quote from: The Member Formerly Known As Sophist on August 04, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
I'll just diagnose myself as Goddess of the Universe and have done with it. Hell with autism!  :green: :zoinks:

Quote from: bodaccea on November 13, 2011, 01:50:55 AM
nice is just something written on biscuits.  

Offline ProfessorFarnsworth

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2011, 09:23:32 AM »
Quote from: I-LOVE-MAPS on January 24, 2011, 08:48:19 AM
Quote from: Sir_Les_Patterson on January 24, 2011, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: Infidel on January 23, 2011, 12:35:25 PM
Do you see me as being dishonest?


I guess I just don't understand why it's a problem for some people

Personally I think it is demeaning yes - I would never refer to a woman as "he" just because she had been born male or was XY. It would feel rude and disrespectful

I think you are identifying with something that you feel and is true and important for you. Is that dishonest? Nope.

I identify very strongly with being an Aussie. This is far more than me knowing or appreciating that I was born in Australia. I identify and associate very strongly to many things real, true or not that associate with "being an Aussie". It doesn't matter a damn if I am viewing these things under bias or rose coloured glasses or whether my concept is weird or different to every other Aussie alive or dead. It is important to me and I don't give a damn who shares that with me. It is personal.

I think it would be rude and disrespectful for anyone to judge me unkindly for not agreeing to call them the pronoun associated with anything other than their biological makeup/birth. I think that is forcing their concepts of gender on me. I think I ought to be entitled to my position.

Why should it matter? I am sure a transexual's identity and position is a personal one. Why would they care or think to change anyone else's position on how they must address and identify with them?

im going to have to go with sir_les on this one. if someone respectfully asked me to refer to them as a girl/boy when he/she was of the opposite physical gender i would have no problem with doing so. but if the opinion that they were to be forced apon me and they demanded me to refer to them as say a girl i would be more likely to say "heh your a boy, DEAL WITH IT B*TCH" i am somewhat of a asshole though

LOL I would too. if someone is going to be an asshole about it and force me to say it their way, I'll just troll them relentlessly on it.
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Existence actually has two broad meanings despite its apparent meaningless. The constant reconciliation of all its parts, and the conservation of any closed system as a whole.

Morality can be extrapolated from these meanings to make these two commandments of godless morality: 1). Be in harmony with one another and 2). Care for the environment.

Offline Squidusa

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2011, 09:27:45 AM »
Ok I have something moore intelligent than "It's a trap" to add to this conversation now  :P

Personally gender pronouns aren't important to me , why can't we refer to people by their name?
and before anyone says "But you never get called the wrong gender" I get called "She" , "Madam" , "young lady" etc etc, Especially by older generations it seems  :laugh:

honestly I don't give a monkey's pingas about it , I find it kind of amusing really.
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Quote from: The Member Formerly Known As Sophist on August 04, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
I'll just diagnose myself as Goddess of the Universe and have done with it. Hell with autism!  :green: :zoinks:

Quote from: bodaccea on November 13, 2011, 01:50:55 AM
nice is just something written on biscuits.  

Offline Adam

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2011, 12:23:12 PM »
I would never try and force anyone to refer to me as anything, gender or otherwise. I've never even asked. It is totally up to other people what they call me, I know that
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eris

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2011, 03:07:53 PM »
I think that everyone is going to react to you differently, and everyone will have a different opinion of what to call you

some people call me by my first name, some people call me mistress. It depends on who it is.
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Offline Squidusa

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2011, 04:59:39 PM »
Quote from: eris on January 24, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
some people call me by my first name, some people call me mistress. It depends on who it is.

Thats awesome , you should sig that  :laugh:
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Quote from: The Member Formerly Known As Sophist on August 04, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
I'll just diagnose myself as Goddess of the Universe and have done with it. Hell with autism!  :green: :zoinks:

Quote from: bodaccea on November 13, 2011, 01:50:55 AM
nice is just something written on biscuits.  

Offline Semicolon

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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2011, 05:00:13 PM »
Quote from: Sea Tart on January 24, 2011, 09:17:12 AM
I geuinely can't think of anything intelligent to add to this conversation , so I'll just say...




http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,16325.0.html

 :autism:

That's never stopped you before.  :zoinks:
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Re: What gender pronouns do you use
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2011, 05:30:24 PM »
Quote from: Semicolon on January 24, 2011, 05:00:13 PM

That's never stopped you before.  :zoinks:
:lol: :plus:
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