These guys are BRAVE!

[TheoK]

So?

The word is originally German, but in German it is derived from the verb "haben" which simply means "have", while in Swedish it has been twisted so that it seems to be derived from "haverera", which means "be wrecked", whih is something totally different. It's the Swedish mentality and society in a nut-shell: the one claiming his right is a wrecked person or a person trying to wreck something, not someone simply trying to have his right, like it is in German.

[TheoK]

So?

"Grammar is essence" - Ludwig Wittgenstein

Language is based on cultural concepts. Therefore Swedes have unique cultural concepts that don't exist in the rest of Western Civilization.

Correct. Many Swedish concepts don't exist in the rest of the Western Civilisation, which the rest of the Western Civilisation should be eternally thankful for.

Even to me, born and raised a Swede, many Swedish concepts are totally unaccebtable and incomprehensible.

[Callaway]

This concerns me:

...The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.

"It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs," said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. "It was supposed to be a Christian group. Christ-like, right, so why would you think that's something wrong with that, right?"

Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."...

Where is the evidence that these guys were really imminently planning to kill people?

Owning guns, running around in the woods with guns, and doing survival training is not a crime.

Thinking about commiting a crime is not a crime, unless we have finally crossed the line into prosecuting thought crimes.

[odeon]

So?

The word is originally German, but in German it is derived from the verb "haben" which simply means "have", while in Swedish it has been twisted so that it seems to be derived from "haverera", which means "be wrecked", whih is something totally different. It's the Swedish mentality and society in a nut-shell: the one claiming his right is a wrecked person or a person trying to wreck something, not someone simply trying to have his right, like it is in German.

It doesn't prove your earlier argument, hence the "so?"

[odeon]

This concerns me:

...The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.

"It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs," said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. "It was supposed to be a Christian group. Christ-like, right, so why would you think that's something wrong with that, right?"

Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."...

Where is the evidence that these guys were really imminently planning to kill people?

Owning guns, running around in the woods with guns, and doing survival training is not a crime.

Thinking about commiting a crime is not a crime, unless we have finally crossed the line into prosecuting thought crimes.

I certainly hope they have proof of the supposed plans.

[TheoK]

It doesn't prove your earlier argument, hence the "so?"

It doesn't "prove" anything but it kind of says it all that the word seems similar in Sweden but has a totally different meaning. To have right or claiming to have right is what it means in German, while in Swedish it means that the person seeking justice is wrecked or trying to cause wreckage. The pejorative connotation of the Swedish word speaks lightyears about Swedish mentality and not in a flattering way.

[TheoK]

This concerns me:

...The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.

"It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs," said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. "It was supposed to be a Christian group. Christ-like, right, so why would you think that's something wrong with that, right?"

Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."...

Where is the evidence that these guys were really imminently planning to kill people?

Owning guns, running around in the woods with guns, and doing survival training is not a crime.

Thinking about commiting a crime is not a crime, unless we have finally crossed the line into prosecuting thought crimes.

We soon have. I told about a Nazi guy who had his gun licenses revoked without having been punished for anything. He was perfectly law-abiding and had had his guns for over 20 years. In Sweden you can be punished without even committing a crime, though it's not called a punishment of course, it's called an "administrative case". 

[odeon]

But your interpretation of "rättshaverist", etymology notwithstanding, is merely an interpretation.

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A4ttshaverist

(Link meaningful only to Lit; sorry, folks.)

[TheoK]

Read about what Lisbeth Lindeborg writes about it. She's BRAVE! 

http://www.nkmr.org/artikel_dags_att_avskaffa_odemokratiska_maktstrukturer_av_lisbeth_lindeborg.htm

[Scrapheap]

But your interpretation of "rättshaverist", etymology notwithstanding, is merely an interpretation.

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A4ttshaverist

(Link meaningful only to Lit; sorry, folks.)

Could you summarize in English plz??

[TheoK]

It actually confirms what I'm saying about the etymology of the word:

"Though there is a word similar to rättshaverist in German, since it comes from Rechthaber - one who has right and understood, one who is of the opinion that he is right. The German word is most often used about someone who thinks he knows best. The German Rechthaberei is in Swedish distorted with the suffix -haveri, which becomes a pun that emphasizes the self-destructive character of the behaviour. Another German word is Querulant."

"Haberei" in German simply means "having" while "haveri" in Swedish means "wreckage" or "making havoc". A "haverist" in its original Swedish sense is a wrecked or wrecked-to-be ship, which is exactly how Swedish authorities and a great deal of the Swedish public look upon someone claiming his right with emphasis.

This is also interesting:

"According to Susanne Bejerot, Swedish psychiatrist and member of the committee of Nils Bejerot's Memorial Fund, rättshaveri is common within the Asperger group. According to her this might be explained by 'a personality charecterized by lack of common sense, pedanthic rule-thinking, pronounced stubbornness and verbal talent'"

Or simply that AS-people have a stronger sense of justice, though in Sweden claiming your right is a Catch 22, so if you claim your right in Sweden, you by definition lack "common sense" in the eyes of society.

[odeon]

It actually confirms what I'm saying about the etymology of the word:

"Though there is a word similar to rättshaverist in German, since it comes from Rechthaber - one who has right and understood, one who is of the opinion that he is right. The German word is most often used about someone who thinks he knows best. The German Rechthaberei is in Swedish distorted with the suffix -haveri, which becomes a pun that emphasizes the self-destructive character of the behaviour. Another German word is Querulant."

"Haberei" in German simply means "having" while "haveri" in Swedish means "wreckage" or "making havoc". A "haverist" in its original Swedish sense is a wrecked or wrecked-to-be ship, which is exactly how Swedish authorities and a great deal of the Swedish public look upon someone claiming his right with emphasis.

This is also interesting:

"According to Susanne Bejerot, Swedish psychiatrist and member of the committee of Nils Bejerot's Memorial Fund, rättshaveri is common within the Asperger group. According to her this might be explained by 'a personality charecterized by lack of common sense, pedanthic rule-thinking, pronounced stubbornness and verbal talent'"

Or simply that AS-people have a stronger sense of justice, though in Sweden claiming your right is a Catch 22, so if you claim your right in Sweden, you by definition lack "common sense" in the eyes of society.

It confirms the etymology--which I never doubted because you do know your stuff--but not your interpretation.

[Scrapheap]

But the etymology reveals the original meaning. Which is to say, that conformity was a trait favored by the culture that created the word. Those who were independent, and stood up for their rights, were considered a threat to the group. The language reveals the though process.

[TheoK]

But the etymology reveals the original meaning. Which is to say, that conformity was a trait favored by the culture that created the word. Those who were independent, and stood up for their rights, were considered a threat to the group. The language reveals the though process.

Very true. 

Here are the negative opinions of quite a few foreigners, many of them Anglos, living or having lived in Sweden. They have about the same views on Sweden as I have; conformism, brain-washing, lack of freedom, power-abusing authorities, etc: I hate Sweden month

[odeon]

But the etymology reveals the original meaning. Which is to say, that conformity was a trait favored by the culture that created the word. Those who were independent, and stood up for their rights, were considered a threat to the group. The language reveals the though process.

No, sorry. The process is not conscious in any way. Etymology is not about a conscious decision--many words are the result of simple misunderstandings.