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Author Topic: Genetic Screening for Aspergers  (Read 2879 times)

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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2009, 03:52:48 AM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

Admit it, we are irresistible.  :eyelash:
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2009, 06:11:41 AM »
I think it would be better that aspie children be born to as least 1 aspie parent. If 2 NT parents got an aspie child from donated sperm, then they would just try and make their kid NT or something.
What makes you think 1 or 2 Aspie parents would not try to do likewise - especially if undiagnosed.

Are you being serious?

Are you trolling here or are you just naturally this stupid?
I can think of plenty of examples where that has happened actually, sometimes worse than NT's doing it. You forget that there are plenty of Aspies obsessively running around insisting everyone be exactly normal.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2009, 06:14:11 AM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

And who decided the best way of cooking would be a pan on a stove. I am pretty sure that if we controlled the design processes, you would not be burning your hands on a stove. The irony is that we dream up most of the technology, then NT's end up adapting it to suit themselves (and it becoming a pain in the arse for us to use - there are numerous obvious examples here)

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2009, 06:15:08 AM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:
Because the internet is a nice random sample of people with Aspergers....

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2009, 06:38:05 AM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

And who decided the best way of cooking would be a pan on a stove. I am pretty sure that if we controlled the design processes, you would not be burning your hands on a stove. The irony is that we dream up most of the technology, then NT's end up adapting it to suit themselves (and it becoming a pain in the arse for us to use - there are numerous obvious examples here)

Who decided on using visible letters on signs, making the world disabling for people who are blind.
Society is making blindness a disability, and being deaf, and having no legs, and lots of other disabilities.

If you think it through, you are right, but if you want to change it for all, there is no society left, not one that can take care of people with a challenge either.
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2009, 07:22:09 AM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

And who decided the best way of cooking would be a pan on a stove. I am pretty sure that if we controlled the design processes, you would not be burning your hands on a stove. The irony is that we dream up most of the technology, then NT's end up adapting it to suit themselves (and it becoming a pain in the arse for us to use - there are numerous obvious examples here)

Who decided on using visible letters on signs, making the world disabling for people who are blind.
Society is making blindness a disability, and being deaf, and having no legs, and lots of other disabilities.
Fortunately the easiest solution in those two cases is cure and will probably be a reality 10-20 years down the line. In our case, that isn't what we are after for the most part.
Quote
If you think it through, you are right, but if you want to change it for all, there is no society left, not one that can take care of people with a challenge either.
We don't need to go as far as abolishing society, just transforming it.

Offline jman

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2009, 08:23:02 AM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

would that include you?

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2009, 08:24:45 AM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

And who decided the best way of cooking would be a pan on a stove. I am pretty sure that if we controlled the design processes, you would not be burning your hands on a stove. The irony is that we dream up most of the technology, then NT's end up adapting it to suit themselves (and it becoming a pain in the arse for us to use - there are numerous obvious examples here)

Who decided on using visible letters on signs, making the world disabling for people who are blind.
Society is making blindness a disability, and being deaf, and having no legs, and lots of other disabilities.
Fortunately the easiest solution in those two cases is cure and will probably be a reality 10-20 years down the line. In our case, that isn't what we are after for the most part.


The cases where blind people have been 'cured' are not that promising. Brains adapt to the options people have. Blind people have a different way of 'viewing' the world. They make up for it by things not visually challenged people do not use. There are examples of 'cured' blind people who want to return to blindness, because the change is something that they cannot adapt to.

And what about people that are genetically prone to be very small. Or very tall. Do they need to be modified. Or will we have everything adapted to them.

Even when focussing only on ASD. People on the spectrum are so different. What is a good thing for one may confuse the other. I don't think society can be adapted to ASD wishes completely, simply because there is not one need that covers all.

That does not take away the need for adaptations. And they can be small, and don't have to change too much for the whole of society. Still having a clear positive impact for many on the spectrum.

In regular classes some small adaptations to cover needs of ASD and AD(H)D kids happen to be beneficial for most kids. So its a win situation beyond expectation. Only to be discovered after changing the structure of teaching to benefit the kids that needed it the most.

And this year, for the first time, a change had been made in the StNic rituals on TV in the Netherlands. We have a different StNic than most of you. He arrives the weekend after November 11. Is on lots of shows till his feast on December 5th. And then, miraculously disappears for a year. The disappearing without being mentioned was hard to deal with for a lot of kids on the spectrum. Especially for them, this year there was coverage of StNic leaving the country, back to Spain. And it will not only have been watched by ASD kids.
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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2009, 08:30:26 AM »
Oh, deaf community takes a pride in their own culture. And there is a lot of resistance against a cure forced on them.

It is not all that simple. People want to be taken as valuable human beings the way they are. And they are right.
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2009, 08:40:59 AM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

And who decided the best way of cooking would be a pan on a stove. I am pretty sure that if we controlled the design processes, you would not be burning your hands on a stove. The irony is that we dream up most of the technology, then NT's end up adapting it to suit themselves (and it becoming a pain in the arse for us to use - there are numerous obvious examples here)

Who decided on using visible letters on signs, making the world disabling for people who are blind.
Society is making blindness a disability, and being deaf, and having no legs, and lots of other disabilities.
Fortunately the easiest solution in those two cases is cure and will probably be a reality 10-20 years down the line. In our case, that isn't what we are after for the most part.


The cases where blind people have been 'cured' are not that promising. Brains adapt to the options people have. Blind people have a different way of 'viewing' the world. They make up for it by things not visually challenged people do not use. There are examples of 'cured' blind people who want to return to blindness, because the change is something that they cannot adapt to.

And what about people that are genetically prone to be very small. Or very tall. Do they need to be modified. Or will we have everything adapted to them.
You are clutching at straws here. Most of these examples are hypothetical and relate to a different cause anyway - physical disabilities. Chances are that most of these people are going to be cured in the near future.
Quote
Even when focussing only on ASD. People on the spectrum are so different. What is a good thing for one may confuse the other. I don't think society can be adapted to ASD wishes completely, simply because there is not one need that covers all.
There is a very simple general solution which covers it - the abolition of social expectations and appropriate punishments for those who try to enforce them. Over time it mostly solves the problem.
Quote
That does not take away the need for adaptations. And they can be small, and don't have to change too much for the whole of society. Still having a clear positive impact for many on the spectrum.

In regular classes some small adaptations to cover needs of ASD and AD(H)D kids happen to be beneficial for most kids. So its a win situation beyond expectation. Only to be discovered after changing the structure of teaching to benefit the kids that needed it the most.
You realise the old system benefitted us massively right? If I were born 40 years older, I would literally be walking straight through, the system having cut away all the morons who are now let up with me. We need a general solution, not adaptations here are there.
Quote
And this year, for the first time, a change had been made in the StNic rituals on TV in the Netherlands. We have a different StNic than most of you. He arrives the weekend after November 11. Is on lots of shows till his feast on December 5th. And then, miraculously disappears for a year. The disappearing without being mentioned was hard to deal with for a lot of kids on the spectrum. Especially for them, this year there was coverage of StNic leaving the country, back to Spain. And it will not only have been watched by ASD kids.
Good quite frankly. It is about time that we recognise that change isn't the enemy, we just need to be in control of it. I like change myself - again the system needs to be changed to stop the moronic majority controlling and enacting it.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2009, 08:41:59 AM »
Oh, deaf community takes a pride in their own culture. And there is a lot of resistance against a cure forced on them.

It is not all that simple. People want to be taken as valuable human beings the way they are. And they are right.
Deaf culture is about as legitimate as Autistic Culture - its made up and does not represent the majority of that grouping. It has no legitimacy.

Offline Adam

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2009, 10:12:36 AM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

would that include you?

lol Actually, yes. One of the reasons I would never have my own genetic offpsring is because I wouldn't want to bring another autistic kid into the world

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2009, 03:48:52 PM »
There is a very simple general solution which covers it - the abolition of social expectations and appropriate punishments for those who try to enforce them. Over time it mostly solves the problem.

Well, here we agree. In the goal that is. Not in the way how to get there.

For me it means the abolition (not by force, because that won't work) of all kinds of ridiculous social expectations. Including disabilities like blindness and deafness. Including sexual orientation varieties. Including gender-queerness. A society with an open mind to differences. That could be a society where ASD people have a better chance of finding a place for themselves.

When I read you it is as if you strive for a kind of brave new world, filled with 'normal' people. Disabled people cured. Genderbenders and sexually different oriented people repenting and turning away from their 'aberrations'. And in this perfectly 'normal' world you expect that people will make major adaptations for this one very diverse group of people on the spectrum. That will not happen. Firstly, I think it is impossible to create this 'normal' society. Secondly, assuming it could be done, there would be no mercy or respect for the group of people they could not mould into normal.

There is a very simple general solution which covers it - the abolition of social expectations and appropriate punishments for those who try to enforce them. Over time it mostly solves the problem.

Again, I agree with you here, though taking it as broadly as possible. Work on a society that is not afraid to accept diversity.
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2009, 04:16:04 PM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

would that include you?

lol Actually, yes. One of the reasons I would never have my own genetic offpsring is because I wouldn't want to bring another autistic kid into the world

Do you value yourself less than others?

Offline Adam

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2009, 04:21:35 PM »
No but I wouldn't want to bring someone else into the world knowing they were likely to experience some of the problems I had when I was growing up too. Even with an AS parent, a lot of those problems will still be there, and I don't wanna be responsible for knowingly doing that to a kid. If I was gonna have kids, I would consider adopting an aspie, but I wouldn't create another one when there's a very high chance it will suffer.