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Author Topic: Genetic Screening for Aspergers  (Read 3392 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2009, 06:54:51 PM »
Here's a video of my cat and my dog opening their christmas presents:


Are they suffering? Should they not have been born?

Well my brother in that video is very likely aspie (has selective mutism and is being assessed for ASD)
I would much rather focus on improving the lives of already-existing kids with difficulties rather than trying to make more

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2009, 07:55:56 PM »
Guess everyone will have to do it the old fashioned way :missionary:
Its inefficient though - the cuckoo knows best.

Inefficient?

In what way? Apart from people having trouble conceiving that is.

Or are you thinking about sperming the world?
If say 100 or so Aspie males were to walk into UK sperm banks and each make a donation, not only does it take them just an afternoon, but when they get caught, the media coverage could be quite explosive.

I looked into sperm donation a while back, and sperm banks in the UK are very picky about who they accept.  You can't just walk in off the street and ejaculate in a cup, and you have to commit to making multiple donations over a 6 month period, if I remember correctly.
You can avoid telling them about having AS - yes it might involve a few trips, but I doubt their safeguards would be difficult to get past if such an attempt were to be organised.

Of course we could be more clever and just encourage people we know who might have AS to donate. For example by sending leaflets carefully to the right people or leaving them in the right places, we could solicit enough donations to make an impact.

So when are you going to get busy jerking off into a cup and show us all how it's done?
:laugh:
Why would I need to show you all that way - look here instead:
http://www.donorsiblingregistry.com/startribune.php
Just as an example, there have been other cases I hear...

It is not more than expected that there have been aspie donors. But that is something different than becoming donor with the main purpose to spread ASD over the population.

I hate it when someone tries to frame me into something.
Where do you think that behaviour comes from? It is learned, is it not? The real question is from whom and why - and the answer to that question is from society, from the impositions of the collective.
Quote
Were I a mum with the idea that I had been conned into carrying a child with a condition, because of that condition, I would hate the donor. Not because of his condition, but because of the way he used me. And I think I would not be the only one.

Having it spelled out before me, from the beginning, would have been a completely different thing.
Those people frame us all into situations and a society ill suited to us without batting an eyelid. You need to start showing some compassion to those who deserve it, rather than trying to prop up an ever more feeble argument. You just balk at the cause because, god forbid, it might actually involve some change. Of course, you miss the small detail that its most likely going to be good change for ourselves.

Just another point I missed, we are people, not a condition or epidemic to be spread. Its no different to a black man "infecting" a white woman with a child who might happen to have darker skin, god forbid...


Those people frame us, so......? Trying to be like "Those people?"

The cause I balk at?

I would rather see it happening from a completely different angle. A couple wanting kids and not able to conceive themselves, with an aspie male involved. Give them the choice if they want, for an aspie donor. Make it visible. Make it visible that parents want a kid that matches them. That shares their quirkyness, if they want to.

In stead of deceiving lots of parents who have no idea, just for this 'noble' cause, set up a database with aspie donors. Where a regular sperm bank can make use of, or where couples with ASD can pick a donor to take with them to hospital. Make it transparent, make it visible. Show what you are doing. That might make a change that is visible. That will be questioned, so what, nothing new there, no need to stop because of that. Being questioned is when you get the chance to give answers.

If you want change, it is time that things become visible and transparent.

Would I have gone for an ASD donor? You know, I had huge problems to get pregnant. And it had to do with semen quality. And we have discussed sperm-donation. And only would have wanted it from someone as quirky as the dad of my kids. I know who I would have asked. And now that I know about autism, chance that the one I would have asked is on the spectrum is quite big.

So come on Hadron. Tell me where I am afraid. You seem the one afraid. Going undercover, when there is no pogrom towards people on the spectrum (yet).

ASD is a disability. But it is not making life less worth than not ASD life. It does make it more difficult. And not only because of society. And there is no need to ban ASD people from getting kids if they want to. But forcing people to get ASD kids in the sly way you promote, I think it is disgusting.
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Offline SleepyDragon

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2009, 12:12:58 AM »
Ever since learning about Asperger's Syndrome (and more to the point, learning that it might have something to do with me personally) a small portion of my thinking has been taken up with the great "why" of it: Surely autism spectrum disorders are not the universe's idea of a cruel random joke? That there must be some deep purpose for these things to exist? That there must be a reason why NTs beget Aspies and vice versa? That last point makes me doubt that Aspies are cuckoos in the nest of humanity — it seems that we are humanity, after all.

My immediate reaction to Hadron's stealth-sperm-donation idea is that coercion and trickery are not good ways to make friends and influence people.

There's a post brewing in my head, but it isn't ready yet.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2009, 10:04:14 AM »
Here's a video of my cat and my dog opening their christmas presents:


Are they suffering? Should they not have been born?

Well my brother in that video is very likely aspie (has selective mutism and is being assessed for ASD)
I would much rather focus on improving the lives of already-existing kids with difficulties rather than trying to make more
You make it sound like the two issues are separate - I advocate here making more of us in this fashion because it improves the lot of those of us who are already here.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2009, 10:15:38 AM »
Guess everyone will have to do it the old fashioned way :missionary:
Its inefficient though - the cuckoo knows best.

Inefficient?

In what way? Apart from people having trouble conceiving that is.

Or are you thinking about sperming the world?
If say 100 or so Aspie males were to walk into UK sperm banks and each make a donation, not only does it take them just an afternoon, but when they get caught, the media coverage could be quite explosive.

I looked into sperm donation a while back, and sperm banks in the UK are very picky about who they accept.  You can't just walk in off the street and ejaculate in a cup, and you have to commit to making multiple donations over a 6 month period, if I remember correctly.
You can avoid telling them about having AS - yes it might involve a few trips, but I doubt their safeguards would be difficult to get past if such an attempt were to be organised.

Of course we could be more clever and just encourage people we know who might have AS to donate. For example by sending leaflets carefully to the right people or leaving them in the right places, we could solicit enough donations to make an impact.

So when are you going to get busy jerking off into a cup and show us all how it's done?
:laugh:
Why would I need to show you all that way - look here instead:
http://www.donorsiblingregistry.com/startribune.php
Just as an example, there have been other cases I hear...

It is not more than expected that there have been aspie donors. But that is something different than becoming donor with the main purpose to spread ASD over the population.

I hate it when someone tries to frame me into something.
Where do you think that behaviour comes from? It is learned, is it not? The real question is from whom and why - and the answer to that question is from society, from the impositions of the collective.
Quote
Were I a mum with the idea that I had been conned into carrying a child with a condition, because of that condition, I would hate the donor. Not because of his condition, but because of the way he used me. And I think I would not be the only one.

Having it spelled out before me, from the beginning, would have been a completely different thing.
Those people frame us all into situations and a society ill suited to us without batting an eyelid. You need to start showing some compassion to those who deserve it, rather than trying to prop up an ever more feeble argument. You just balk at the cause because, god forbid, it might actually involve some change. Of course, you miss the small detail that its most likely going to be good change for ourselves.

Just another point I missed, we are people, not a condition or epidemic to be spread. Its no different to a black man "infecting" a white woman with a child who might happen to have darker skin, god forbid...


Those people frame us, so......? Trying to be like "Those people?"
Goodness - I am just telling you not to waste effort enforcing a right that you can't be bothered to defend when it comes to giving it to yourself. Its a bit like being a staunch proponent of democracy, then never bothering to cast your vote.

Of course there are other rights which disproportionately favour everyone else - e.g. the right not to be offended, which only works one way. Do you want me to list others?
Quote
The cause I balk at?

I would rather see it happening from a completely different angle. A couple wanting kids and not able to conceive themselves, with an aspie male involved. Give them the choice if they want, for an aspie donor. Make it visible. Make it visible that parents want a kid that matches them. That shares their quirkyness, if they want to.
Someone tried to do something similar to that a few years ago, he ended up being branded a Nazi. Look up Robert Klark Graham if you want to know more.
Quote
Instead of deceiving lots of parents who have no idea, just for this 'noble' cause, set up a database with aspie donors. Where a regular sperm bank can make use of, or where couples with ASD can pick a donor to take with them to hospital. Make it transparent, make it visible. Show what you are doing. That might make a change that is visible. That will be questioned, so what, nothing new there, no need to stop because of that. Being questioned is when you get the chance to give answers.
I can already be questioned publically - my point is that it is far more effective for myself and others like me to be doing it from the TV studio and furthering the wider cause rather than having a one on one fringe debate.
Quote
If you want change, it is time that things become visible and transparent.

Would I have gone for an ASD donor? You know, I had huge problems to get pregnant. And it had to do with semen quality. And we have discussed sperm-donation. And only would have wanted it from someone as quirky as the dad of my kids. I know who I would have asked. And now that I know about autism, chance that the one I would have asked is on the spectrum is quite big.
The point is that the clinics now would say no, if this was done openly.
Quote
So come on Hadron. Tell me where I am afraid. You seem the one afraid. Going undercover, when there is no pogrom towards people on the spectrum (yet).
Where are you not afraid? You are way too cowardly to do what is neccesary, choosing instead to hide behind everyone elses collective moral judgements and diktats.
Quote
ASD is a disability. But it is not making life less worth than not ASD life. It does make it more difficult. And not only because of society. And there is no need to ban ASD people from getting kids if they want to. But forcing people to get ASD kids in the sly way you promote, I think it is disgusting.
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

Offline El

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2009, 10:28:54 AM »
The funny thing is that this approach has already been road tested and none of your objections emerged. You do realise the consequences of winning the debate would mean at least adequate support for everyone with AS and reasonable access to opportunities.

And yes, even if those 1000 children lived awful lives, another few hundred thousand or so in this country wont be. I am of course saying that most of those 1000 people will have happy lives, like most people who are born.
:duh:  Where the fuck did you get that idea into your head?
Most people are at least content, otherwise there would be a lot more revolutions and the sorts in this society. It is very difficult to sustainably run a society in which the majority are miserable, they nearly always quickly fall down.
That wasn't a typo, then.  You really believe the majority of people live happy lives and/or are content.   :facepalm2:
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
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You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2009, 10:44:19 AM »
The funny thing is that this approach has already been road tested and none of your objections emerged. You do realise the consequences of winning the debate would mean at least adequate support for everyone with AS and reasonable access to opportunities.

And yes, even if those 1000 children lived awful lives, another few hundred thousand or so in this country wont be. I am of course saying that most of those 1000 people will have happy lives, like most people who are born.
:duh:  Where the fuck did you get that idea into your head?
Most people are at least content, otherwise there would be a lot more revolutions and the sorts in this society. It is very difficult to sustainably run a society in which the majority are miserable, they nearly always quickly fall down.
That wasn't a typo, then.  You really believe the majority of people live happy lives and/or are content.   :facepalm2:
I believe the majority of people believe that they live happy lives or are content. Whether they actually do so is another matter.

Offline Phlexor

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2009, 11:47:06 AM »
I think it would be better that aspie children be born to as least 1 aspie parent. If 2 NT parents got an aspie child from donated sperm, then they would just try and make their kid NT or something.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2009, 11:51:33 AM »
I think it would be better that aspie children be born to as least 1 aspie parent. If 2 NT parents got an aspie child from donated sperm, then they would just try and make their kid NT or something.
What makes you think 1 or 2 Aspie parents would not try to do likewise - especially if undiagnosed.

Offline Phlexor

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2009, 11:57:14 AM »
I think it would be better that aspie children be born to as least 1 aspie parent. If 2 NT parents got an aspie child from donated sperm, then they would just try and make their kid NT or something.
What makes you think 1 or 2 Aspie parents would not try to do likewise - especially if undiagnosed.

Are you being serious?

Are you trolling here or are you just naturally this stupid?

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2009, 06:36:58 PM »
ASD is only a disability because everyone else chooses to make it one. It is time that steps are taken by ourselves to free ourselves from this situation. Or has everyone now lost their pride and self-respect?

OK, just an example, explain, where does society come in here:

I am hypersensitive, I can feel the difference between hot and cold. No issues there. I have no problems with my hypersensitivity.

While I am cooking, it happens more than once, that I want to lift a pan from the stove. I feel it is hot, but I don't process in time what it means. So, I take the pan from the stove bare handed, while feeling it is hot. And I get burned.

Where did society make this happen?

Don't come with the story that it is "just" a co-morbid thing. It is part of me, part of why I am on the spectrum.

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Offline renaeden

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2009, 07:49:14 PM »
ASDs are disorders.

Making aspies as Phlexor has done, they will be raised by an aspie dad in a stable, happy family by someone who knows what it is like to be aspie = cool.

Making aspies whose future will be uncertain, who knows how unhappy they might be = not cool.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2009, 07:57:07 PM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2009, 09:46:49 PM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

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Offline Phlexor

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Re: Genetic Screening for Aspergers
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2009, 11:28:28 PM »
Making aspies = bad idea in general

I mean look at the people on this site :tinfoil:

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