Author Topic: I hope Les has another heart attack soon  (Read 14878 times)

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GalileoAce

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #345 on: December 05, 2009, 03:35:41 AM »

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #346 on: December 05, 2009, 04:47:10 AM »
I don't know either. This little gnome-like man seems to be talking, but I can't work out what it is he's saying.   :-\

Maybe he's saying he wishes he didn't have a receding hairline. Maybe he's saying he wishes he had a life. Who knows, who cares? Not me

I am not prepare to dumb it down for you Soph. Let's say broadly though that you and Bint both act like a couple of bored, self-centred teenage girls. That is nothing to do with what you are just what you come across as. You have of course both been socialised and cultured into being girls and even though Soph says that he identifies as a man.
As stupid as Soph is (and let's not unnecessarily under-rate this) he will not be able to exorcise or trade those social mores, value and trappings easily, nor automatically become masculine. Nor will reading a book or asking questions do more than provide a rough starting point to what a man is.
Soph doesn't have much of a clue. Regardless of the way Soph identifies himself or how useless he is being convincingly masculine, in time it may become more apparent. At the moment his looks like a plain girl and acts like a stupid girl. In time who knows.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Adam

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #347 on: December 05, 2009, 05:05:01 AM »
lol

Convincing? I'm not trying to be a man. I've said so myself plenty of times - I'm not very masculine and I'm fine with that.


GalileoAce

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #348 on: December 05, 2009, 05:34:24 AM »
The binary runs deep in this one. :: nods :: :P

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #349 on: December 05, 2009, 05:44:13 AM »
Look it is highly hypothetical BUT if I was to tomorrow suddenly feel that I was perhaps transgendered myself, and If I was to feel within myself that I was not a male but perhaps more female than man and waned to embrace that, I would HAVE to realise that my life and all it was built on would need to change.
I would appreciate that every step in life and every interaction I had and indeed many of the values and social and cultural mores that I had accepted as inherent to who I was would need revisiting.
I am not saying this would be easy or that I would just be a chick. This is a cop out. I would need to tear down this foundations and rebuild brick by brick. It would not matter if I had accepted being a transgendered female at that point. That would be a start and nothing more.
To grow and accept this as a new way of me being me, I would have to examine every fundamental aspect of me and defend it and learn what being a woman was about. I would need to take on the bad aspects with the good and defend everything.
Not easy, but then I don't think anyone but the truly ignorant would say it was.
Now if I say that Soph holds on by all appearances, female socialisation or behaves like a female, this is identifying that perhaps (as much as Soph may have started the road to self-actualisation to a masculine identity) that perhaps Soph has a ways to go.
Enough perhaps to get GA's knickers in a twist but at its core pretty lightweight in what is said.
Funnily if Soph or GA for that matter have recently (in terms of years of their life) accepted their transgendered identities, it would be ridiculous to believe that they would automatically be what they identify as. They would take sometime to become or reach self-actualisation. In the meantime they have to learn and evolve. It is not simply a matter of making a decision or feeling they identify as this gender and "Hey Presto".
I am not saying this and I don't believe I ever have or that they would even expect this.
I don't know why either would be sensitive about it either.

I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

GalileoAce

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #350 on: December 05, 2009, 08:13:09 AM »
Look it is highly hypothetical BUT if I was to tomorrow suddenly feel that I was perhaps transgendered myself, and If I was to feel within myself that I was not a male but perhaps more female than man and waned to embrace that, I would HAVE to realise that my life and all it was built on would need to change.
I would appreciate that every step in life and every interaction I had and indeed many of the values and social and cultural mores that I had accepted as inherent to who I was would need revisiting.
I am not saying this would be easy or that I would just be a chick. This is a cop out. I would need to tear down this foundations and rebuild brick by brick. It would not matter if I had accepted being a transgendered female at that point. That would be a start and nothing more.
To grow and accept this as a new way of me being me, I would have to examine every fundamental aspect of me and defend it and learn what being a woman was about. I would need to take on the bad aspects with the good and defend everything.
Not easy, but then I don't think anyone but the truly ignorant would say it was.
Now if I say that Soph holds on by all appearances, female socialisation or behaves like a female, this is identifying that perhaps (as much as Soph may have started the road to self-actualisation to a masculine identity) that perhaps Soph has a ways to go.
Enough perhaps to get GA's knickers in a twist but at its core pretty lightweight in what is said.
Funnily if Soph or GA for that matter have recently (in terms of years of their life) accepted their transgendered identities, it would be ridiculous to believe that they would automatically be what they identify as. They would take sometime to become or reach self-actualisation. In the meantime they have to learn and evolve. It is not simply a matter of making a decision or feeling they identify as this gender and "Hey Presto".
I am not saying this and I don't believe I ever have or that they would even expect this.
I don't know why either would be sensitive about it either.

You surprise me. Perhaps there is more to you than the majority of you posts would indicate.

What you've said is pretty accurate but you come at it from the wrong angle. But the I am exhausted of explaining it all. The basics are being transgender doesn't "onset", the accepted theory is that it's always been there, that the transgendered person often tries to identify as their birth-assigned gender, they try to fit in, but they don't. It doesn't work. This is where transgenderedness comes from. They realise that they can not fit, do not want to fit, fit in elsewhere, or something along those lines. This can take years, some people not fully realising until much later in life, some much earlier like Kim Petras.

What you elude to, in "female socialisation" is cultural imprinting of the gender binary. People expect certain behaviours from certain people and react in a way expectant of such behaviours. Meaning "See Male: Interact as with Male." and vice versa. Every one has a certain "script" pre-loaded on how to interact with male or female. Society "decrees"* that every member fit into either Male or Female, and that behaviours match outward appearance. Society, as us autistics should be well aware of, is often flawed in magnificent ways.

*= Decrees implies some sort of law making committee, but society is merely a product of the majority's perceived* opinions, stereotypes, etc.
*= There is research to suggest that people will sacrifice their own opinions in favour of a perceived majority opinion, even if a statistical majority of people don't agree with this perceived opinion. Therein like the problems with society.

GalileoAce

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #351 on: December 05, 2009, 08:13:56 AM »
Kim Petras:


Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #352 on: December 05, 2009, 09:06:15 AM »
No and here you must see that we are all autistic (aside from a few notables like Bint) and we know what it is like "fitting in" with a society which is not set up to cater for the diversity from which we belong to. We know this inherently yet we endeavour to fit in best we can despite it. Part of that is evolving into embracing what we are and are not and finding what we can accept as fundamentally us and what is in flux and what is worth throwing out and what is worth modifying, and that is not a one off.
Transgender is not a lifestyle choice but neither is autism. Transgender is a difference from birth as is Autism. That is not saying that because you are Autistic that recognition on this is somehow a time of complete enlightenment in which everything about you is placed at your feet and you instantly adapt. Neither is recognising yourself as Transgender.
How long does it take to deconstruct the identity and all that baggage? How long to reconstruct (whist continually still receiving the same cultural and societal data)?
Hell as much as an authority as you hold yourself out to be on Transgender and how comfortable you both are neither of you could be expected to give these answers because they are ambiguous.
Questioning these things is not a sign of intolerance and ought not be seen as some intolerant fault. Better to have this and defend your position and shore up things from all sides. My best mates objected in a big way when I let them know I was on the Autism Spectrum. In gently showing them how and why and where it affected me was a help to understanding myself and perhaps appreciate this. Better than them not questioning it and not eventually coming around to understanding it themselves. What I did not do though was to play the intolerance card or the "you are not getting it" card.
As I say shining a light on Soph's gender or pointing out what I see as anomalies is no biggie in my book and I think you have looked at it from the wrong angle. Why? Because you are sensitive and you are wanting to see Transgender vs non-transgender issues. There is a word for this approach to difference.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline El

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God, I am so going to regret jumping into this fray
« Reply #353 on: December 05, 2009, 11:46:52 AM »
Am I totally mistranslating this, or is Sir Les trying to say that in order to identify as female, one must act traditionally female/feminine, and in order to identify as male, one must act traditionally male/masculine?  Because, shit, that would pretty much rob me of my gender.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 11:58:26 AM by PMS Elle »
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Blasted

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #354 on: December 05, 2009, 11:57:04 AM »
I don't think he himself knows what he's on about.

Offline Lemon Aguilera

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #355 on: December 05, 2009, 12:20:20 PM »
i would be male. i took a gender test and came out as male. i also typically think in a male way and don't understand women at all. but i like having a female body, i mean i don't mind it, nor do i mind make up or being girly. people who have some weird gender stereotype in their heads are just afraid. les is probably afraid to face the ambiguousness of gender and sexuality.
"the dreams we dream together become reality" - John Lemon

Offline Adam

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #356 on: December 05, 2009, 01:38:28 PM »
Les can you just explain what you're on about in a couple sentences? It's difficult to understand your long posts sometimes (I'm sure you'll say that's me being thick, but I don't care. and I'm not taking the piss, I really do find it difficult to read what you're saying sometimes)

I don't care if people think I'm not masculine enough or I'm too girly or I can't be a guy coz I have a squeeky voice. None of these things mean shit to me and I din't think I'm sensitive - obviously if people are talking about me then I'm gonna reply, especially if I think what they'er saying about me is wrong

Anyway, basically what I am saying is I don't care if OTHER people view me as not being masculine enough to be a guy. I know who and what I am myself, and I am cool with that.

Offline El

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #357 on: December 05, 2009, 02:11:47 PM »
I wasn't taking the piss either- I'm assuming I was wrong, but I'm not totally sure.  I'm with Lemon Aguilera, though, I'm prolly at least as much mentally male as female, but I'm pretty damn grounded in both my sex and my gender being female.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Adam

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #358 on: December 05, 2009, 02:15:05 PM »
I am not very masculine or female really. Sort of in the middle. But I definitely don't see myself as a woman just coz I'm a bit of a ponce :P

Offline El

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Re: I hope Les has another heart attack soon
« Reply #359 on: December 05, 2009, 02:24:24 PM »
And I don't think of myself as a man even though I love fucking, spend much time and effort on pursiung said activity, and think women are easy on the eyes but often far too batshit fucknuts to be worth the damn effort.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.