I hope Les has another heart attack soon

[Adam]

I'm not bothered that you think I look feminine, Alex. I do look pretty feminine and I'm fine with that. A lot of trans guys who try and look really manly just end up looking like fat butch lesbians imo, and I don't wanna do that. I am pretty girly looking (features I mean) and that's ok with me. I don't have an overly manly personality either.

The only problem I have with being feminine-looking is that it makes me look a lot younger.

[Alex179]

I'm not bothered that you think I look feminine, Alex. I do look pretty feminine and I'm fine with that. A lot of trans guys who try and look really manly just end up looking like fat butch lesbians imo lol, and I don't wanna do that. I am pretty girly looking (features I mean) and that's ok with me. I don't have an overly manly personality either.

Yeah, don't change either way.   It is not worth it just to attract women.    There is bound to be some out there that will enjoy you just the way you are of course.   Yeah do not do the fat butch lesbian thing, haha ever.

[Adam]

I'm not getting surgery. I would consider hormones though, if only to make my life easier

I definitely wouldn't do anything just to attract women though. I mean if that was my plan, then I'd have better luck as a girl. If I pretended I was just a lesbian I reckon I could get girls fairly easily if I went to a gay club

Plenty of pansexual women around and I've talked to a lot online. Just none IRL. It's not a big deal atm though

[odeon]

He's trying to say that transgendered aspies are harming other autistic people because others then associate autism with being transgendered. Also the sky is not purple.

And that being gay or trans is a lifestyle choice, as is anorexia (or was that PPK?)

PPK is a lifestyle choice?

[El]

I'd assume even Alex would have to admit, these guys are prettier women than most women are:

http://www.missinternationalqueen.com/images/gallery/2009/gallery.html

[GalileoAce]

*smiles and nods at Hadron* Unless you're willing to present actual evidence to back up your claims I think we're done.

I don't need to, your the one claiming something exists without any evidence whatsoever.

You're*
I've presented plenty of evidence. Evidence that has citations, and further reading with verifiable research backing it up. You've presented... Well just your word.
And I'm not the only one claiming. You are also.

Present me a peer-reviewed legitimate scientific research article and then we might have something to discuss. Oh I forget, they don't exist, I wonder why

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Sexual_Differentiation_of_the_Human_Brain__Relevance_for_Gender_Identity,_Transsexualism_and_Sexual_Orientation.pdf

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/131/12/3132

http://www.gendermedicine.com/Uploads/assets/swaab.pdf



Also the ICD-10 is a peer reviewed medical and psychological diagnostic manual. And contains the following criteria:

F64       Gender identity disorders
F64.0       Transsexualism
      A desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex.
F64.1       Dual-role transvestism
      The wearing of clothes of the opposite sex for part of the individual's existence in order to enjoy the temporary experience of membership of the opposite sex, but without any desire for a more permanent sex change or associated surgical reassignment, and without sexual excitement accompanying the cross-dressing.
      Gender identity disorder of adolescence or adulthood, nontranssexual type
      Excludes:    fetishistic transvestism ( F65.1 )
F64.2       Gender identity disorder of childhood
      A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual's own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behaviour in boys is not sufficient. Gender identity disorders in individuals who have reached or are entering puberty should not be classified here but in F66.-.
      Excludes:    egodystonic sexual orientation ( F66.1 )
sexual maturation disorder ( F66.0 )
F64.8       Other gender identity disorders
F64.9       Gender identity disorder, unspecified
      Gender-role disorder NOS

      
      
The DSM-IV the american psychological diagnostic manual contains this:

Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Identity Disorder

    * A. A strong persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In children, the disturbance is manifested by four (or more) of the following:
         1. Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.
         2. In boys, preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.
         3. Strong and persistent preferences for cross-sex roles in make believe play or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.
         4. Intense desire to participate in the stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.
         5. Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.

      In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.
    * B. Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.

      In children, the disturbance is manifested by any of the following:
      In boys, assertion that his penis or testes are disgusting or will disappear or assertion that it would be better not to have a penis, or aversion toward rough-and-tumble play and rejection of male stereotypical toys, games, and activities.
      In girls, rejection of urinating in a sitting position, assertion that she has or will grow a penis, or assertion that she does not want to grow breasts or menstruate, or marked aversion toward normative feminine clothing.

      In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex.
    * C. The disturbance is not concurrent with physical intersex condition.
    * D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

      Code based on current age:
    * 302.6 Gender Identity Disorder in Children
    * 302.85 Gender Identity Disorder in Adolescents or Adults

      Specify if (for sexually mature individuals):
    * Sexually Attracted to Males
    * Sexually Attracted to Females
    * Sexually Attracted to Both
    * Sexually Attracted to Neither

   

[Alex179]

I'd assume even Alex would have to admit, these guys are prettier women than most women are:

http://www.missinternationalqueen.com/images/gallery/2009/gallery.html

Oh that title is hilarious.    I am sure almost all of them are on some serious hormones.   Maybe some plastic surgery as well.   I have already stated I have seen very convincing photos of trans models before, who has not?    Those are tranny beauty pageant contestants, not the everyday person.   It just seems a bit insane for someone to do that much shit to make themselves look different.    I just have never put that much thought into my physical appearance, and it shows in how I dress lol.    I don't even understand metrosexual dudes in that way as well, it is just too much work for too little benefit.   I like to shower in the morning, dry off fast and leave.   I do not see why someone would choose to get up every day super early and do all the shit a woman does to get ready in the morning.    It is a form of insanity or psychological disorder in that way.    OCD in that they are obsessed with their appearance, but they are focused towards one gender role (the opposite of the traditional gender of their sex).    Would make life a huge pain in the ass if you had to dress up as a woman.    Dressing like a guy, that is pretty damn easy.

[Alex179]

You're an arse 

You are an ass, not an arse.    A jackass.

[Adam]

I'd assume even Alex would have to admit, these guys are prettier women than most women are:

http://www.missinternationalqueen.com/images/gallery/2009/gallery.html

Oh that title is hilarious.    I am sure almost all of them are on some serious hormones.   Maybe some plastic surgery as well.   I have already stated I have seen very convincing photos of trans models before, who has not?    Those are tranny beauty pageant contestants, not the everyday person.   It just seems a bit insane for someone to do that much shit to make themselves look different.    I just have never put that much thought into my physical appearance, and it shows in how I dress lol.    I don't even understand metrosexual dudes in that way as well, it is just too much work for too little benefit.   I like to shower in the morning, dry off fast and leave.   I do not see why someone would choose to get up every day super early and do all the shit a woman does to get ready in the morning.    It is a form of insanity or psychological disorder in that way.    OCD in that they are obsessed with their appearance, but they are focused towards one gender role (the opposite of the traditional gender of their sex).    Would make life a huge pain in the ass if you had to dress up as a woman.    Dressing like a guy, that is pretty damn easy.

Dude all of the above could be said about most bio women as well. I don't understand why any women (trans or not) can be arsed making so much effort with their appearance. Although I'm glad they do

[Alex179]

I'd assume even Alex would have to admit, these guys are prettier women than most women are:

http://www.missinternationalqueen.com/images/gallery/2009/gallery.html

Oh that title is hilarious.    I am sure almost all of them are on some serious hormones.   Maybe some plastic surgery as well.   I have already stated I have seen very convincing photos of trans models before, who has not?    Those are tranny beauty pageant contestants, not the everyday person.   It just seems a bit insane for someone to do that much shit to make themselves look different.    I just have never put that much thought into my physical appearance, and it shows in how I dress lol.    I don't even understand metrosexual dudes in that way as well, it is just too much work for too little benefit.   I like to shower in the morning, dry off fast and leave.   I do not see why someone would choose to get up every day super early and do all the shit a woman does to get ready in the morning.    It is a form of insanity or psychological disorder in that way.    OCD in that they are obsessed with their appearance, but they are focused towards one gender role (the opposite of the traditional gender of their sex).    Would make life a huge pain in the ass if you had to dress up as a woman.    Dressing like a guy, that is pretty damn easy.

Dude all of the above could be said about most bio women as well. I don't understand why any women (trans or not) can be arsed making so much effort with their appearance. Although I'm glad they do

Very true.   The reason why biological women do it because that is what has been expected of them for so long.    That is how their gender role formed in each respective society.   They think that they have to do all that work (well a lot of them do in a sense).   I like that women care about their looks, but they have men to blame in a sense for that.  Kids are taught at a young age, this is what boys do and this is what girls do, etcetera.   I think most biological women are crazy, their behavior is hardwired in a sense and still chaotic.   I stopped trying to make sense of women a long time ago.

[GalileoAce]

I know an MTF trans that barely bothers with makeup or wearing fashionable clothes or any of that.

[renaeden]

I know an MTF trans that barely bothers with makeup or wearing fashionable clothes or any of that.

That is probably why one of our neighbours mistook her for a guy. Twice.

[Scrapheap]

[GalileoAce]

I know an MTF trans that barely bothers with makeup or wearing fashionable clothes or any of that.

That is probably why one of our neighbours mistook her for a guy. Twice.

When?

[Scrapheap]