bad influence.

[McGiver]

i am not quite sure if my actions were appropriate or not, but this is the situation:

there is this kid (girl) down the street, who is the same age as my AS child.  i noticed when she first started to hang out with my kids that she would exclude my AS child from the games, rather include only my younger daughter.  for instance; she would come over with a toy and only let my youngest play with it and tell my eldest (who is the same age as her) that she cannot play with it.
what i did was teach my AS child not to be so dominating and demand that they only play her games.  friendship, apparently, is a give and take proposition.  however, as time passed, it became worse.  i noticed that the chilkdren would play games together (the girl down the street and my youngest) and once my eldest decided to join in (innocently enough) the girl down the street would say, "c'mon (to my youngest) let's play something else."
i began to have a big problem with the exclusion, since, i have tried to teach my kids to stick up for each other.  and now i see my youngest joining in this hurtful exclusion BS.

my remedy:  i told both of my girls that they may no longer play with her, because she is a bad influence and the tactics that she utilizes (in play) are hurtful.

am i wrong for judging an 8 year old by these actions?

i have to say that i have only given a brief recap here and i had observed the situation grow worse over several months.  also, i am angry that it hurts my AS child so much.  and, i do notwant my younger daughter to learn these lifes lessons of excluding, and bullying, in a way.

[Merry Widow]

i don't know...... it seems kind-of unfair that your youngest has lost a friend because of it. then again, if the girl (from down the street) is as mean as you say she is, she's probably better off without her. how does your eldest feel about it? is she hurt by the way they have treated her or is she oblivious / indifferent to it?

what does your partner think about the situation?

[McGiver]

first: my wife has never been a fan of the kid down the street.  she has thought that she was a trouble maker from the beginning.  our initial impression was her bold faced lying to us for no reason at all.

my eldest was oblivious to it at first, but then she came to me crying that noone wanted to play with her.  that is when i taught her about the give and take in a relationship.  so then i started observing their play patterns.  i noticed it got worse, once my daughter would come in and say, "what do you guys want to play?"
the response, " not with you!"  and then they would run.  my daughter woulkd then cry and i felt like an arse because i tried to teach her the best way to approach a play time game, and it made me out to be the person with bogus information.  which, BTW, threatens my credibility as a teacher (which is my job as a parent).  why would she believe me when my information is wrong.
but i maintain that it was just the mean spirited girl from down the street.  i did observe their play practices before rendering a decision.

[Peter]

Try teaching them that many kids are vicious little shits who shouldn't be trusted as far as you can flick a bogey.  It'll prepare them for adult life, and keep them out of trouble a bit.

[McGiver]

we are adamant about teaching the lifes lesson: life isn't fair.

its not something we harp on, but do not shy away from it when the opportunity prsents itself.

[Callaway]

How many children regularly come over and play with your daughters?

If enough children come over so they can afford to lose one with no problems, then maybe it was the best thing to do.

If not that many come over, it might be better to talk to your younger daughter and the neighbor child separately and tell them it hurts your older daughter's feelings when they don't play with her and run off from her and you want them all three to play together when the neighbor child comes over.  Then you could make their play dates more structured, where for example they all play a game together that you choose beforehand.  Easy board games and card games are good for this.  So are some simple crafts, like making bath salts from epsom salts, fragrance and food coloring or gak from Elmer's Glue-All, water, food coloring and Boraxo.  You plan all the activities so they all need to play them together.  Then you give them all a snack and send the child home while the visit is still successful.  This is a lot of work at first, but once they learn to play well together, you can back off.

I don't know why it is, but it is more difficult for three children to play well together than it is for two.  I had the same problem when I was a kid.  My cousin and I played well together when I visited her, but when her neighbor came over and wanted to play with her too, they always excluded me.  If I could I would just go home when this happened but sometimes her mom was babysitting me, so I couldn't.  She had an amazing collection of children's books so I would just go and borrow one of her books and read it until it was time to go home.  I never acted like it bothered me.

[duncvis]

Try teaching them that many kids are vicious little shits who shouldn't be trusted as far as you can flick a bogey.  It'll prepare them for adult life, and keep them out of trouble a bit.

usually true unfortunately - combine with the advice 'if it seems too nice, it probably is'   

I don't know why it is, but it is more difficult for three children to play well together than it is for two.  I had the same problem when I was a kid.  My cousin and I played well together when I visited her, but when her neighbor came over and wanted to play with her too, they always excluded me.  If I could I would just go home when this happened but sometimes her mom was babysitting me, so I couldn't.  She had an amazing collection of children's books so I would just go and borrow one of her books and read it until it was time to go home.  I never acted like it bothered me.

the three versus two problem seems to be a little girl thing - I've never really seen it with lads. our little girl has a similar problem with her friend across the street. when she gets excluded I tell her to come home and have bollocked her friend several times for it. similarly, when she and her friend are playing they will deliberately exclude our older son - eventually we have to make her come in as well. I think its related to the 'best friend' bond NT girls seem to develop. 

[odeon]

I'm with Callaway on this one. Three is often one too many, and this has been my experience as well. Yes, it seems to be more of a girl thing but I've found that this is often the case with both my kids.

I'd talk to the neighbour kid about this, separately, and with her parents too, if necessary. And if all else fails, I'd probably do as you did: forbid my kids to play with her.

[McGiver]

here is my problem with talking with the neighbour kid or her parents.
i am a pretty abrasive guy.  i do not hold my feelings well.  never could act.  i am sure that i would probably just start a war.

here is my current solution to the friends problem:
i am coaching both of my girls soccer teams and i am planning to have team functions to build unity.  both my girls already know a couple of the kids on their team from scholl and they live fairly close (within a couple of blocks).  therefore i will try to get them their socialization needs that way.  oh, and kick some serious arse on the field.  i plan on making winners out of these teams.  i am not the oh its all about the fun type of guy.  winning is fun, so is teamwork.

[Hypnotica_Gaze]

I agree with Callaway with the kids rather being a duo than having a third party around thing. Ive seen it with boys as well as girls.

Unfortunately its common Mcjagger, and you cant really force kids to want to play with others, the girl down the street is obviously being cruel in the sense that she and your youngest exclude the oldest (even though they probably dont understand the true consequences of their actions in the sense of how it makes your eldest feel, but they will all learn soon enough through experience no doubt).

However you cant always expect one of your daughters friends to want to play with the other sibling. If your youngest likes the girl down the road and they both play well together (and she isnt devious in any other sense) then its a shame to break up their friendship, maybe you need to try help your eldest make some friends, the soccer team could be potentially great for that but you need to bare in mind that kids just like adults build friendships and bond or identify with one person more than another, only kids find it easier to exclude the parties they dont bond with or want around and are less tactful about it.

Talk to your youngest, explain how her sister feels and talk to her about sister solidarity and how they should try stick together if you must, and even get your partner to speak to both girls as in your youngest and her friend together, the best way to get through to them would be to explain the situation, how your eldest feels, then ask them how would they feel if they were excluded and kids said the same things to them such as "we dont want to play with you" or run away etc, wouldnt it make them sad, because it could happen to them at some point and its not nice. Suggest they try make a little effort before deciding to exclude her, even ask why they dont want to play with the eldest, see if theres an actual reason (because sometimes there can be even though it can be a silly reason, but it can help you sort things).

Its important to explain to your eldest that these things happen to most kids sometimes even adults and not to take it personally or to heart, some people find it easier to be in a coupling than in a group, also that even though some people are just plain silly or cruel, that more commonly alot of the time its more to do with people just making friends easier with one person than another weither it be because they have more in common or whatever the reason may be, which she will find out more about as she gets older and picks her friends and companions etc.

I hope the soccer team goes well, and both your daughters make some decent friends out of it.

[hiroshima]

Why don't you write the great anti-war novel while you're at it?

Or as it reads in Slaughterhouse 5... you might as well write the great anti-glacier novel.

Sure, now you have control.  Today one 8 year old, but what are you going to do when she's up against the world?

You're going to have a hard time convincing your NT daughter she has to give up any friend that will exclude an aspie.  If your daughters are naturally bonded it might work.  Otherwise you may create a rift.

My NT daughter passionately defends her brother (from me, even) but she viciously picks on and excludes her younger sister who is awkward and has many AS traits... excluding her in favor of another daughter who is less awkward, more NT.   I take it hour by hour.

[QuirkyCarla]

I think you did the right thing by telling your daughters neither of them can play with her. Your wife doesn't like the girl and thinks she's trouble (which it seems like she is), your older daughter is getting hurt, and it's hurting you to see this happen. It's not worth it to allow your younger daughter to have her as a friend. Too many kids get corrupted by hanging out with the wrong people. I also think it could be a punishment for the "friend". Because of her behavior, she doesn't get to hang out with your youngest daughter anymore...

I also agree about the number "three." I'm always the one left out if I'm hanging out with two people.

[Nomaken]

Having exactly the right environment(including people and places) is much more important for a child than the actual moral implications of what you are doing to them and about them.  Your child will learn many more bad behaviors and understandings of people from being around that kid, than any moral or ethical lessons your child will learn from you saying they cant hang around that kid. 

[QuirkyCarla]

She may be too young and impressionable to learn anything right now though.

[Nomaken]

Children are learning machines.