Neurotypical

[Natalia Evans]

NT doesn't really exist. It's just an illusion. It's just a word and it doesn't define anyone. Everyone has something wrong with them so what is normal. I prefer "normality" meaning the majority. I just hate hearing that word when it comes to NT bashing and lumping them all into one group acting like we're superior and we're angels and wouldn't hurt a fly. I say "people" instead so that I am talking about people with different neurological conditions and mental illnesses and personality disorders, health problems. Sometimes I use "NT."

[SleepyDragon]

Apparently Atwood has lost the plot recently anyway.

When I met and spoke to Tony Attwood (very briefly) at the workshops he was giving in Sydney last weekend, he seemed quite collected and on top of his game. I know he is not universally revered in the autistic blogosphere. Nevertheless, he was at pains to distance himself from the aspie-bashing sadly evident in spouse support groups, and he seems to hold in genuine affection the people on the autistic spectrum whom he treats.

I attended one day out of a 2-day series of workshops on issues in post-childhood Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of the audience the day I went were women in either the education or healthcare sectors. It's not like we have a glowing sign stamped on our forehead or anything, but I still wondered, "Where are the Aspies?"

The fact is that there is a yawning gulf of comprehension and understanding between the autistic "community" (if you can call it that ) on the one side, and the helping professions and family members of people with AS on the other. It is going to take quite a lot of patience and goodwill to bridge this gap, I reckon. I'm in the process of writing down my impressions of the workshops. You may well imagine that I had my antennae fully extended for any slurs against people on the spectrum. And I was uneasy about one or two things I observed. But on the whole, I came away with positive feelings and a sense that there needs to be a very large amount of "cultural exchange," if you will.

I'll have more to say about it further down the track. I have to mention, though, that one of the ladies in charge of the event used the term "neurotypical" herself. With a huge grin on her face.

[Tom/Mutate]

When I first heard the word NT I just thought it refered to someone who is capable of doing the social stuff aspies find hard. I never thought there would be a negative association. The analogy I thought of was like a body-builder. A body-builder can lift weights I cannot lift and is stronger than me. But the term is morally neutral.
He could use those muscles to beat people up, or to save people from a car wreck. Likewise an "NT" could use their social/group skills to be friendly and help people fit in, or to bully and exclude, it depends on the person.

But it seems on AS forums everybody used the term to describe whom they don't like - To those who value intelligence, NTs are stupid. If they value friendliness and acceptance, NTs are bullies. If they value honesty, NTs are liars and manipulative.

[SovaNu]

you don't have to let it be a negative association.

[jman]

Nevertheless, he was at pains to distance himself from the aspie-bashing sadly evident in spouse support groups, and he seems to hold in genuine affection the people on

*sigh* I never understand why spouses (mostly women  ) put all the blame on their AS spouse when it takes two to tango?

[SovaNu]

aspie men are so into cold NT women who have no understanding and then complain when they get no understanding. take some fucking responsibility. noone forces you to marry a twat.

[JustGiveIn]

you don't have to let it be a negative association.

This is one of the main problems I have with the term, Its not exactly about political correctness, but on some level it is.

Neurotypical Doesn't have to have a negative association and in one interpretation it isnt. But in another sense it does, there's no getting around that. That's the main problem, its ridiculous to have a term that describes everyone with a standard brain functions or whatever in even a slightly negative term, we already have enough neurodiverse people going on about how aspies are superior (but thats a whole nother discussion)

second, imagine you came upon the community for schizophrenics or picked up a book for em, and they described everyone without it as "OneVoices" or "The Voiceless" and the term was used again and again, by everyone in the community. how ridiculous and hilarious that would look to you, but to them, thats just the word they use, no real problem in using it, it just gives me more people to laugh at.

[SovaNu]

i hate PC.

[SovaNu]

and you know what? i'd be totally cool with voiceless, i wouldn't think it was hilarious or ridiculous. it makes sense. don't assume to know how i or someone would bloody react. what really gets my goat is people assuming i would react a certain way.

[JustGiveIn]

Don't assume to know how i or someone would bloody react. what really gets my goat is people assuming i would react a certain way.

You gotta realize how that sounds...

If was gonna call someone a genius could I have a general idea of how they would react.
If I was gonna tell someone they look like a damn tool, could I assume they would react in a certain way?
what about beautiful or a fucking retard?

Nobody knows exactly how they would react, but to say you don't have a good idea, that would make you very very aspie

[SovaNu]

no, you don't know how i'd react. how would i react if you called me a genius and a retard?

what makes me a fucking aspie is knowing logically i can't know, and thus not wasting time assuming.

go ahead and tell me how i would react.

[JustGiveIn]

Nobody knows exactly how they would react, but to say you don't have a good idea, that would make you very very aspie

no, you don't know how i'd react. how would i react if you called me a genius and a retard?

what makes me a fucking aspie is knowing logically i can't know, and thus not wasting time assuming.

go ahead and tell me how i would react.

Work on your theory of mind their sovanu, lets talk about levels for a second here, because honestly and I mean this truthfully, you've got the lowest IQ, the highest level of ignorance and  Cant seem to grasp the basics here unlike anybody else on the boards. I dont care how long you studied XYZ, or exactly how aspie you are. drop the butch girl act or start posting with even a hint of intelligence. But where was I, OH yeah levels!

Level #1 you read "If I was gonna call someone a genius could I have a general idea of how they would react? " and think "Nope, you can't understand how somoneone would react" ( Which is too literal a intreptation of a question already phrased to avoid literal interpretations IE= "General Idea" but more about that on level 2)

Level #2 Thinking, Now read carefully here cause this is where your ignorance kicks in. Level 2 thinking, is thinking about, what I was thinking about, when I asked the question. (not so tough eh, read a book, youll pick up on it eventually, just learn to read first)

So with that in mind, what do you think, I was thinking when I wrote that question. Do you really think I was saying that I KNOW exactly how someone will react to ANYTHING?   Logically, even a 10 year old knows that nobody can ever know exactly how someone will react.

now lets go a little deeper, this may sound complicated to you, but it happens everyday, between most people. While you dont know exactly how someone will react you DO know the general ( or level#1)  implications of what your saying. scream at someone level#1 assumption= not a positive reaction. But you can also logically realize there are other reactions aswell, and based upon the range of differnt possible reactions coupled with what you know about that person or what you can tell from that person, you can assign a likely hood of reaching a certain reaction.

too complicated? If I were to tell someone they look beautiful, the % chance of them having a negative reaction to that is much smaller then a neutral or positive one. and thats a very basic way of understanding

If was gonna call someone a genius could I have a general idea of how they would react.

Now for the hell of it, lets move up to level #3 thinking, this is where the fun begins.

Level 3 is me thinking about, how your thinking about my thinking, effects your thinking and how that should alter my thinking.

But once you learn the alphabet, we can move on to actually using it. get it?

[Phlexor]

Apparently Atwood has lost the plot recently anyway.

When I met and spoke to Tony Attwood (very briefly) at the workshops he was giving in Sydney last weekend, he seemed quite collected and on top of his game. I know he is not universally revered in the autistic blogosphere. Nevertheless, he was at pains to distance himself from the aspie-bashing sadly evident in spouse support groups, and he seems to hold in genuine affection the people on the autistic spectrum whom he treats.

I attended one day out of a 2-day series of workshops on issues in post-childhood Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of the audience the day I went were women in either the education or healthcare sectors. It's not like we have a glowing sign stamped on our forehead or anything, but I still wondered, "Where are the Aspies?"

The fact is that there is a yawning gulf of comprehension and understanding between the autistic "community" (if you can call it that ) on the one side, and the helping professions and family members of people with AS on the other. It is going to take quite a lot of patience and goodwill to bridge this gap, I reckon. I'm in the process of writing down my impressions of the workshops. You may well imagine that I had my antennae fully extended for any slurs against people on the spectrum. And I was uneasy about one or two things I observed. But on the whole, I came away with positive feelings and a sense that there needs to be a very large amount of "cultural exchange," if you will.

I'll have more to say about it further down the track. I have to mention, though, that one of the ladies in charge of the event used the term "neurotypical" herself. With a huge grin on her face.

I think its more along the lines of taking some ideas too far. Like I know he isn't against us per say, its just that he may not be representative of us anymore.

['andersom']

Nobody knows exactly how they would react, but to say you don't have a good idea, that would make you very very aspie

no, you don't know how i'd react. how would i react if you called me a genius and a retard?

what makes me a fucking aspie is knowing logically i can't know, and thus not wasting time assuming.

go ahead and tell me how i would react.

Work on your theory of mind their sovanu, lets talk about levels for a second here, because honestly and I mean this truthfully, you've got the lowest IQ, the highest level of ignorance and  Cant seem to grasp the basics here unlike anybody else on the boards. I dont care how long you studied XYZ, or exactly how aspie you are. drop the butch girl act or start posting with even a hint of intelligence. But where was I, OH yeah levels!

Level #1 you read "If I was gonna call someone a genius could I have a general idea of how they would react? " and think "Nope, you can't understand how somoneone would react" ( Which is too literal a intreptation of a question already phrased to avoid literal interpretations IE= "General Idea" but more about that on level 2)

Level #2 Thinking, Now read carefully here cause this is where your ignorance kicks in. Level 2 thinking, is thinking about, what I was thinking about, when I asked the question. (not so tough eh, read a book, youll pick up on it eventually, just learn to read first)

So with that in mind, what do you think, I was thinking when I wrote that question. Do you really think I was saying that I KNOW exactly how someone will react to ANYTHING?   Logically, even a 10 year old knows that nobody can ever know exactly how someone will react.

now lets go a little deeper, this may sound complicated to you, but it happens everyday, between most people. While you dont know exactly how someone will react you DO know the general ( or level#1)  implications of what your saying. scream at someone level#1 assumption= not a positive reaction. But you can also logically realize there are other reactions aswell, and based upon the range of differnt possible reactions coupled with what you know about that person or what you can tell from that person, you can assign a likely hood of reaching a certain reaction.

too complicated? If I were to tell someone they look beautiful, the % chance of them having a negative reaction to that is much smaller then a neutral or positive one. and thats a very basic way of understanding

If was gonna call someone a genius could I have a general idea of how they would react.

Now for the hell of it, lets move up to level #3 thinking, this is where the fun begins.

Level 3 is me thinking about, how your thinking about my thinking, effects your thinking and how that should alter my thinking.

But once you learn the alphabet, we can move on to actually using it. get it?

And once you believe your thinking about the thinking of another about your thinking about her or him, you're landed in the world of gossip and make believe.
With those beautiful words like : "Of course you will feel this, it has to be, or you're not normal."
Bravo. TOM to perfection.

I rather wait for the reaction. Because thinking about what X might think about what Z thought when Z said something to X etc is soooooooo damned tiring and boring. And most people are wrong about me, why would I be right about them?

[JustGiveIn]

And once you believe your thinking about the thinking of another about your thinking about her or him, you're landed in the world of gossip and make believe.

The land of make beleive? You gotta be joking.

This is why 90% of you arent gonna amount to shit out there. Let me present you with a super complicated ULTRA IN DEPTH example of 

"The Land Of Make Believe"

Suppose you know that there are two drinks in the fridge, Milk and Orange juice.

You ask your friend to grab you a drink from the fridge.

Your friend gets to the fridge and sees the two differnt drinks. He grabs the orange juice because he knows you hate milk.

He hands you the orange juice and you think to yourself, "WOW he didnt grab the milk, this guy really knows me"

So instead of just taking the drink, you give him a genuine thanks.

I hope you enjoyed your journey to the land of make beleive.

YOU thought about what HE thought about YOUR thinking and altered YOUR reaction.

Do I expect people to grasp the hidden obvious. NOPE  Ive come to expect stupidity everywhere I go,Ive realized that people just dont think Like I do.

 But hey I dont know you, this could just be a slip up