INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Markie on June 16, 2007, 04:33:58 AM
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Hi all,
This post is probably going to fuck up this forum for me because it will most likely lead to a massive flame war. Especially my views about what's going on in the middle east with Israel and Arabs / Islam. But what ta fuck. This shit's been burning on my mind and pissing me off for a long time now. And if there is a place to discuss it, it's probably here. So here goes:
I wonder what others, especially with AS perceive as the biggest problems of our world, the planet we live on.
Here's what I currently think the biggest problems are:
#1.) Lack of a Just Government System
There is no just system to govern or manage humans. We have (or would have) systems to manage horses, pigs, cattle, etc. justly in farming, assuring they all get what they need to survive, food, water, a place to sleep, etc.
Not so for ourselves though. Dictatorship or communism is obviously not just. But neither is democracy and capitalism. Even in a direct democracy such as in Switzerland, where people get to vote about a lot of things, a MAJORITY decides and rules. That's not totally different than a dictatorship. Instead of one single dictator, it's just a majority of people who are the dictators. Admittedly, that's usually much better, but it's not just. At least certainly not for the minorities. Because the minorities will simply be overruled and their rights and interests ignored and trampled when they conflict with the interests of the majority.
#2.) Overpopulation
The massive overpopulation of the human races is DIRECTLY responsible for (all) wars and the damages to the environment. It's all about resources. Too many people and they will fight over resources (WW1, WW2, Israel, Iraq, etc.). Too many people and they will steal the resources from each other and destroy the natural resources such as clean air, enough food, water, land, forests, the oceans, etc.
I was going to mention overpopulation as the number one problem of humanity and this world, which it really is, but then I believe the only way to control our birth rate is by solving the problem of a just government system. Why? Simple: Because a just government system would assure wealth for everyone. Wealth for everyone leads to a strong decline in reproduction as can be seen by the birth rates of the wealthiest countries. Rich people have better or other entertainment than having children.
#3.) The Lies of the West about Arabs, Islam, Israel and the Middle East
When I turn on the television and watch the news about the middle east, about Iran, Iraq, Arabs, about Islam, Palestine and about the crimes of Israel, I am dumbfounded and outraged by the ruthless amount of lies the media, official state television, spread. And I don't live in the US, where I'm sure its even worse. I live in Switzerland!
Yesterday civil war broke out in the Gaza Strip. Guess what the news on the official Swiss television broadcasted: "After intelligent / mischievous planning of the fundamental terrorist group Hamas for years, in the Gaza Strip Hamas were able to overthrow the government of Fatah and president Abas who were rightly elected two years ago by Palestinians..."
(*gasp*)!!
They simply forgot to mention, that Hamas was rightly elected by Palestinians more recently because Fatah and Abas are (perceived to be) corrupt and collaborate with Israel and the west in fucking over the Palestinians, taking away their land and possessions and dignity, just to get some money and jobs from Israel for themselves. They simply forgot to mention that Fatah has tried to kill the leader of Hamas, President Hania several times and came close to succeeding more than once. The last attack to his apartment with a rocket blew a hole into the house of Hania yesterday, left Hania unhurt, but most likely sparked the final escalation in the Gaza Strip yesterday.
If Jews, even fundamentalist Jews who steal and murder in the name of Jewish religion have a "right do defend themselves" and their stealing and murdering, then why wouldn't Palestinians and Hamas have the same right?
It's just funny all the selective perception and lies which are going on in western (Christian) countries and media. It's exactly like in WW2 with Hitler. People are falling prey to their own collective lies and the propaganda of their own media and countries.
Just great!... :-(
Me, I am worried that this stupidity and ignorance of the actual facts and truth will lead to a serious conflict which will affect us all (9-11 being just the tip of an iceberg). But people just continue to believe and tote how Jews have a right to steal other people's land just because they have a religious book which says they will receive a "promised land" by god. Obviously many Jews can't read because as far as I know it says they will "receive" a land by God, it doesn't say they are allowed to "steal it from others by murder" (or war).
Just because Jews in Israel happen to have greater military power, does not mean God gave them the right to steal, murder and kill for their own benefit!
Mind you, I have nothing against Jews. But if we say Islamic people kill in the name of religion, maybe we should ask why. Maybe it's because Jewish people steal land from and kill Islamic people in the name of Jewish religion (and their own land). And many Christian people support them. And their crimes affect MILLIONS of Palestinians!! Not just a few! Killed thousands or ten thousands. Took away land and homes of hundred thousands. Not centuries ago, but almost every fucking day in the last 50 years or more in Palestine!!! And Christian countries like the US support this injustice with billions of dollars to assure military supremacy of Israel. Just because of the oil in the middle east. And because of religious fundamentalists in the USA sympathizing with Jews in Israel who are basically not doing anything else than Europeans did in America: Murder the local population to steal their land.
Man is a beast. And Arabs, not even extremists, don't seem to be the party who started or are responsible for this conflict.
But what's most troubling about this is the collective denial and lies about it. It's as if man kind is *looking* for the next world war.
#4) Not employing and supporting People with Asperger's Syndrome
Alright, this problem might be taken with a tiny bit of humor, especially coming from someone with AS, but actually it's also worth quite serious thought. People with AS are bullied out of jobs (happened to me about 30 times in 12 years) and not respected because of their lack of social abilities. However, if the CIA for instance would've had people with AS in key positions, the war on Iraq could probably have been avoided entirely. Because people with AS would not have said that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, just because that's what everyone wanted to hear.
People with AS might be a pain in the ass for co-workers or their companies, but their unnerving ignorance of social- and peer pressure in favor of facts and the truth might hold great value for humanity. So maybe Aspies really ought to be given key positions instead of fed off with disability rents. For the sake of humanity.
:-)
There. So much for the problems I perceive as the biggest.
I'm sure that a lot of people will not agree with my view on what Israel is doing in the middle east and that emotions will go high or very high about that problem.
However, before exercising your right to free speech I ask you (only if you can manage ;-) to can your emotions for a very short time and also answer to the other problems I see. – If that is, you have anything to say to those other problems.
It's not a coincidence that I mentioned lack of a just government system and overpopulation as problems 1 and 2 before the middle east. I think those are much bigger problems with a much wider spread in their effects, consequences and in time. They should be solved first, at least if we can avoid a world war over the middle east.
Also I'd like to know what you think what the biggest problems of this world are?
Greetings,
Mark
omitted, to please this forum. :squit:
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Woo. Maybe that post should be split into four separate flame wars. How many forums did you say you'd been banned from? :eyebrows:
#1.) Lack of a Just Government System
There is no just system to govern or manage humans. We have (or would have) systems to manage horses, pigs, cattle, etc. justly in farming, assuring they all get what they need to survive, food, water, a place to sleep, etc.
Not so for ourselves though. Dictatorship or communism is obviously not just. But neither is democracy and capitalism. Even in a direct democracy such as in Switzerland, where people get to vote about a lot of things, a MAJORITY decides and rules. That's not totally different than a dictatorship. Instead of one single dictator, it's just a majority of people who are the dictators. Admittedly, that's usually much better, but it's not just. At least certainly not for the minorities. Because the minorities will simply be overruled and their rights and interests ignored and trampled when they conflict with the interests of the majority.
Excellent point, and clearly put. The question, obviously, is in how to change our own governance.
#2.) Overpopulation
The massive overpopulation of the human races is DIRECTLY responsible for (all) wars and the damages to the environment. It's all about resources. Too many people and they will fight over resources (WW1, WW2, Israel, Iraq, etc.). Too many people and they will steal the resources from each other and destroy the natural resources such as clean air, enough food, water, land, forests, the oceans, etc.
I was going to mention overpopulation as the number one problem of humanity and this world, which it really is, but then I believe the only way to control our birth rate is by solving the problem of a just government system. Why? Simple: Because a just government system would assure wealth for everyone. Wealth for everyone leads to a strong decline in reproduction as can be seen by the birth rates of the wealthiest countries. Rich people have better or other entertainment than having children.
A bit simplistic, but no shit. A better explanation of the lower birth rate in developed countries though is that peoples' expectations of their childrens survival have caught up with the actual death rate, so population becomes stable again. human geography year 11 stuff. :angel:
#3.) The Lies of the West about Arabs, Islam, Israel and the Middle East
When I turn on the television and watch the news about the middle east, about Iran, Iraq, Arabs, about Islam, Palestine and about the crimes of Israel, I am dumbfounded and outraged by the ruthless amount of lies the media, official state television, spread. And I don't live in the US, where I'm sure its even worse. I live in Switzerland!
Yesterday civil war broke out in the Gaza Strip. Guess what the news on the official Swiss television broadcasted: "After intelligent / mischievous planning of the fundamental terrorist group Hamas for years, in the Gaza Strip Hamas were able to overthrow the government of Fatah and president Abas who were rightly elected two years ago by Palestinians..."
(*gasp*)!!
They simply forgot to mention, that Hamas was rightly elected by Palestinians more recently because Fatah and Abas are (perceived to be) corrupt and collaborate with Israel and the west in fucking over the Palestinians, taking away their land and possessions and dignity, just to get some money and jobs from Israel for themselves. They simply forgot to mention that Fatah has tried to kill the leader of Hamas, President Hania several times and came close to succeeding more than once. The last attack to his apartment with a rocket blew a hole into the house of Hania yesterday, left Hania unhurt, but most likely sparked the final escalation in the Gaza Strip yesterday.
If Jews, even fundamentalist Jews who steal and murder in the name of Jewish religion have a "right do defend themselves" and their stealing and murdering, then why wouldn't Palestinians and Hamas have the same right?
It's just funny all the selective perception and lies which are going on in western (Christian) countries and media. It's exactly like in WW2 with Hitler. People are falling prey to their own collective lies and the propaganda of their own media and countries.
Just great!... :-(
Me, I am worried that this stupidity and ignorance of the actual facts and truth will lead to a serious conflict which will affect us all (9-11 being just the tip of an iceberg). But people just continue to believe and tote how Jews have a right to steal other people's land just because they have a religious book which says they will receive a "promised land" by god. Obviously many Jews can't read because as far as I know it says they will "receive" a land by God, it doesn't say they are allowed to "steal it from others by murder" (or war).
Just because Jews in Israel happen to have greater military power, does not mean God gave them the right to steal, murder and kill for their own benefit!
Mind you, I have nothing against Jews. But if we say Islamic people kill in the name of religion, maybe we should ask why. Maybe it's because Jewish people steal land from and kill Islamic people in the name of Jewish religion (and their own land). And many Christian people support them. And their crimes affect MILLIONS of Palestinians!! Not just a few! Killed thousands or ten thousands. Took away land and homes of hundred thousands. Not centuries ago, but almost every fucking day in the last 50 years or more in Palestine!!! And Christian countries like the US support this injustice with billions of dollars to assure military supremacy of Israel. Just because of the oil in the middle east. And because of religious fundamentalists in the USA sympathizing with Jews in Israel who are basically not doing anything else than Europeans did in America: Murder the local population to steal their land.
Man is a beast. And Arabs, not even extremists, don't seem to be the party who started or are responsible for this conflict.
But what's most troubling about this is the collective denial and lies about it. It's as if man kind is *looking* for the next world war.
:popcorn: this one is going to be FUN. but it won't get you banned. you've made a few good points in there - now you'll have to back them up I suspect. :litigious:
#4) Not employing and supporting People with Asperger's Syndrome
Alright, this problem might be taken with a tiny bit of humor, especially coming from someone with AS, but actually it's also worth quite serious thought. People with AS are bullied out of jobs (happened to me about 30 times in 12 years) and not respected because of their lack of social abilities. However, if the CIA for instance would've had people with AS in key positions, the war on Iraq could probably have been avoided entirely. Because people with AS would not have said that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, just because that's what everyone wanted to hear.
People with AS might be a pain in the ass for co-workers or their companies, but their unnerving ignorance of social- and peer pressure in favor of facts and the truth might hold great value for humanity. So maybe Aspies really ought to be given key positions instead of fed off with disability rents. For the sake of humanity.
:-)
Fancy joining The Wronged? (http://www.thewronged.org) :eyebrows:
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Less time spent on wars, less money spent on weapons. More time and more money spent on getting ourselves off this planet that is on its way to being ruined by the human race.
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Less time spent on wars, less money spent on weapons. More time and more money spent on getting ourselves off this planet that is on its way to being ruined by the human race.
yeah, if only the schools had all the money they needed and the army had to hold bakesales to buy thier weapons.
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That would be ideal.
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Less time spent on wars, less money spent on weapons. More time and more money spent on getting ourselves off this planet that is on its way to being ruined by the human race.
yeah, if only the schools had all the money they needed and the army had to hold bakesales to buy thier weapons.
That's funny...although, they might make a lot of money...some ladies like guys in uniform!
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
Is THAT all you're offering?
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
Is THAT all you're offering?
It's called an auction noodlenuts. You start out low to create a feeding frenzy.
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
I prefer uniformless men thanks.
Dashing? Are you sure?
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
I prefer uniformless men thanks.
Dashing? Are you sure?
i've met him IRL, and he aint bad looking. but i never saw him in a tux.
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
I prefer uniformless men thanks.
Dashing? Are you sure?
i've met him IRL, and he aint bad looking. but i never saw him in a tux.
He's blonde though, right?
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
I prefer uniformless men thanks.
Dashing? Are you sure?
i've met him IRL, and he aint bad looking. but i never saw him in a tux.
He's blonde though, right?
What hair I have left...... my goatee is blonde!!!
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
Excellent point, and clearly put. The question, obviously, is in how to change our own governance.
I think software developers should be given the task of writing an operating system in humanly readable language that governs humans justly.
;D
Fancy joining The Wronged (http://The Wronged)? :eyebrows:
Wow, this didn't happen to me for a long time:
I'm discovering and registering to new forums faster than I can manage to get myself kicked out of!!
3 days ago WrongPlantet.net, 2 days ago IntensitySquared.com and now theWronged.org!
:yikes: :o :)
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
I prefer uniformless men thanks.
Dashing? Are you sure?
i've met him IRL, and he aint bad looking. but i never saw him in a tux.
He's blonde though, right?
What hair I have left...... my goatee is blonde!!!
If you have blonde hair that means you probably have light coloured eyes, right?
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they could hold one of those bid on a date with a GI auctions.
Alright ladies!!! who wants to bid for a date with a dashing 30-something former Marine who lives in O.C.??
Do I hear $20 ??
Is THAT all you're offering?
It's called an auction noodlenuts. You start out low to create a feeding frenzy.
Oh, so you're intending on paying more?
Seems like you should have started with
what you could afford, and worked downward.
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
Eh, just try posting what you believe, and
you'll get flamed to hell and back.
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
Eh, just try posting what you believe, and
you'll get flamed to hell and back.
that just applies to you, twittering emo boid! :litigious:
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
Eh, just try posting what you believe, and
you'll get flamed to hell and back.
that just applies to you, twittering emo boid! :litigious:
:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
I know how, I just don't bother.
Turned a couple more away tonight.
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
I know how, I just don't bother.
Turned a couple more away tonight.
I wonder what your motives are at turning away all the flocks of people that are gagging to fuck you..
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
I know how, I just don't bother.
Turned a couple more away tonight.
I wonder what your motives are at turning away all the flocks of people that are gagging to fuck you..
waking up, i should imagine.
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I wonder what your motives are at turning away all the flocks of people that are gagging to fuck you..
Not my taste.
Not in the least.
And hell, I don't know about fucking,
but trying to press up against me.
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
I know how, I just don't bother.
Turned a couple more away tonight.
I wonder what your motives are at turning away all the flocks of people that are gagging to fuck you..
waking up, i should imagine.
I wish it were that simple.
Some women are sexist pigs,
unfortunately. There was this
old guy too though.
I wonder why they can't see how
close to danger they are, screwing with
me when I'm dancing. It's gotta be
clear as hell that I'm NOT sane.
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
I could flame you but you really need to divide your stuff into more paragraphs or I won't bother reading your stuff and any flaming will have to be at random. For all I know, I could agree with whatever you're saying.
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
I could flame you but you really need to divide your stuff into more paragraphs or I won't bother reading your stuff and any flaming will have to be at random. For all I know, I could agree with whatever you're saying.
:agreed:
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:tooledup: Mine's bigger!
Unfortunately you don't know how to use yours.
I know how, I just don't bother.
Turned a couple more away tonight.
I wonder what your motives are at turning away all the flocks of people that are gagging to fuck you..
waking up, i should imagine.
I wish it were that simple.
Some women are sexist pigs,
unfortunately. There was this
old guy too though.
I wonder why they can't see how
close to danger they are, screwing with
me when I'm dancing. It's gotta be
clear as hell that I'm NOT sane.
what does this even mean? ::)
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
I could flame you but you really need to divide your stuff into more paragraphs or I won't bother reading your stuff and any flaming will have to be at random. For all I know, I could agree with whatever you're saying.
lol. lose the will to live about two sentences in, eh? seems reasonable.
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waking up, i should imagine.
I wish it were that simple.
Some women are sexist pigs,
unfortunately. There was this
old guy too though.
I wonder why they can't see how
close to danger they are, screwing with
me when I'm dancing. It's gotta be
clear as hell that I'm NOT sane.
what does this even mean? ::)
It means that I got groped, in the midst
of dancing. And, if I wasn't in some
random redneck bar, where I didn't
know the bouncers, I would have
struck.
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the moral of that incident is obvious, then - serves you right for going into a random redneck bar. :P
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the moral of that incident is obvious, then - serves you right for going into a random redneck bar. :P
A couple of good bands.
Plus, they'll get used to
me, and it'll become my
kinda redneck bar, instead. :laugh:
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fight from the inside, eh?
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fight from the inside, eh?
Or at least have the regulars convinced that
I'm dangerous.
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This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
I could flame you but you really need to divide your stuff into more paragraphs or I won't bother reading your stuff and any flaming will have to be at random. For all I know, I could agree with whatever you're saying.
lol. lose the will to live about two sentences in, eh? seems reasonable.
We'll have to see if the n00b sticks around. *I* think I'm being very reasonable.
-
This is soo typical: When you expect to get flamed, nothing happens...
:twitch: :dunce:
I could flame you but you really need to divide your stuff into more paragraphs or I won't bother reading your stuff and any flaming will have to be at random. For all I know, I could agree with whatever you're saying.
lol. lose the will to live about two sentences in, eh? seems reasonable.
We'll have to see if the n00b sticks around. *I* think I'm being very reasonable.
you generally are. however, i think, on balance, i prefer you when you're being unreasonable... ;) :eyebrows:
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Oh, I can be unreasonable, too, if you want me to. Let's reason about this some, shall we?
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nah, don't worry about reasoning it out - just get your kit off and be unreasonable with me. :eyebrows: :eyelash:
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#1.) Lack of a Just Government System
There is no just system to govern or manage humans. We have (or would have) systems to manage horses, pigs, cattle, etc. justly in farming, assuring they all get what they need to survive, food, water, a place to sleep, etc.
Not so for ourselves though. Dictatorship or communism is obviously not just. But neither is democracy and capitalism. Even in a direct democracy such as in Switzerland, where people get to vote about a lot of things, a MAJORITY decides and rules. That's not totally different than a dictatorship. Instead of one single dictator, it's just a majority of people who are the dictators. Admittedly, that's usually much better, but it's not just. At least certainly not for the minorities. Because the minorities will simply be overruled and their rights and interests ignored and trampled when they conflict with the interests of the majority.
There is no just system of governing people because governing people is unjust.
The only way for everyone to get what they want is anarchy. Doesn't mean breaking windows and throwing chairs.
Certainly doesn't mean everyone will get what they want.
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The only way for everyone to get what they want is anarchy. Doesn't mean breaking windows and throwing chairs.
Certainly doesn't mean everyone will get what they want.
This is a contradictory statement, as far as I see.
AND, if everyone can't get what they want, well,
I'm more than happy if it's just me who does.
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#1.) Lack of a Just Government System
There is no just system to govern or manage humans. We have (or would have) systems to manage horses, pigs, cattle, etc. justly in farming, assuring they all get what they need to survive, food, water, a place to sleep, etc.
Not so for ourselves though. Dictatorship or communism is obviously not just. But neither is democracy and capitalism. Even in a direct democracy such as in Switzerland, where people get to vote about a lot of things, a MAJORITY decides and rules. That's not totally different than a dictatorship. Instead of one single dictator, it's just a majority of people who are the dictators. Admittedly, that's usually much better, but it's not just. At least certainly not for the minorities. Because the minorities will simply be overruled and their rights and interests ignored and trampled when they conflict with the interests of the majority.
There is no just system of governing people because governing people is unjust.
The only way for everyone to get what they want is anarchy. Doesn't mean breaking windows and throwing chairs.
Certainly doesn't mean everyone will get what they want.
Well, I would argue that instead of justice the aim of government should be efficiency and freedom with a trade-off between the two on some cases. If all systems are imperfect then we pick the lesser of all evils. Justice though is an empty concept on some level, as it is either a moral preference that has indiscernible truth value or it simply relates to existing law. Really though, even when advocating anarchy there has to be a choice of anarchic societies as modes of human organization termed as anarchy exist from the communist to the capitalist, with all sorts of unusual fringes such as primitive, green, feminist, christian, etc. Really though, I would not label myself an anarchist as I don't think that we will find a sudden utopia.
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The only way for everyone to get what they want is anarchy. Doesn't mean breaking windows and throwing chairs.
Certainly doesn't mean everyone will get what they want.
This is a contradictory statement, as far as I see.
AND, if everyone can't get what they want, well,
I'm more than happy if it's just me who does.
I was well aware of that. Why should we get what we want anyhow? Eliminate expectations and you will fail to be disappointed.
drewtheyellow hits the nail on the head, government and morals collide at some point though, and this is often guided by religion.
Morals are required for people to coexist, which people seem to have a penchant for. We have to try to think the same in order to each get what we want, i.e. we must all want the same things.
I've read about some forms of anarchic society as you mention, and neither will I agree to anarchism for the same reason you state.
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drewtheyellow hits the nail on the head, government and morals collide at some point though, and this is often guided by religion.
Morals are required for people to coexist, which people seem to have a penchant for. We have to try to think the same in order to each get what we want, i.e. we must all want the same things.
Well, that is certainly true. In fact, no government can exist that does not conflict with one being's morality and that is true whether or not we have religion or not given the many advocacy groups and ideologies. Some level of morality is necessary I suppose, or at least a strong framework of proper incentives, the former being more commonly found than the latter. We must have desires that are similar enough to be compatible within a society, however, we can still have a great deal of freedom if everyone assents to a minimalist framework of government. The issue is that not everyone wants to do that because it conflicts with their existing morals.
I've read about some forms of anarchic society as you mention, and neither will I agree to anarchism for the same reason you state.
Right, I might trust anarchism more if I started seeing less government bringing a lot more success in a rather magical manner in all affairs but there is naturally a conservative element in me that distrusts radical change without a powerful proof of success.
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drewtheyellow hits the nail on the head, government and morals collide at some point though, and this is often guided by religion.
Morals are required for people to coexist, which people seem to have a penchant for. We have to try to think the same in order to each get what we want, i.e. we must all want the same things.
Well, that is certainly true. In fact, no government can exist that does not conflict with one being's morality and that is true whether or not we have religion or not given the many advocacy groups and ideologies. Some level of morality is necessary I suppose, or at least a strong framework of proper incentives, the former being more commonly found than the latter. We must have desires that are similar enough to be compatible within a society, however, we can still have a great deal of freedom if everyone assents to a minimalist framework of government. The issue is that not everyone wants to do that because it conflicts with their existing morals.
I've read about some forms of anarchic society as you mention, and neither will I agree to anarchism for the same reason you state.
Right, I might trust anarchism more if I started seeing less government bringing a lot more success in a rather magical manner in all affairs but there is naturally a conservative element in me that distrusts radical change without a powerful proof of success.
But are we talking about success of the collective or of the individual?
Of course, as you previously mentioned, we would require a Utopian society for anarchy to function. It is purely a hypothetical, "in the perfect world" theory. All people are skeptical of radical change, so even if we were on the right course, in the right mindset, it would take generations to implement.
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But are we talking about success of the collective or of the individual?
Well, collective, the summation of the individuals. I would not argue just from freedom's value but rather the ends that freedom attains.
Of course, as you previously mentioned, we would require a Utopian society for anarchy to function. It is purely a hypothetical, "in the perfect world" theory. All people are skeptical of radical change, so even if we were on the right course, in the right mindset, it would take generations to implement.
Right, not only that but we would have to be on track to the same anarchy to some extent, at least each group would. The type of society for the individuals to live in would have to be the same for all bound within that anarchic group and thus we have issues with some of the more conflicting anarchist beliefs.
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Anarchy:
O.K., I'm no expert on "anarchy" so go ahead and toast me, but I don't think
anarchy would work or would even exist for very long.
Anytime a government system totally fails, such as in riots and revolutions,
you have an anarchy. And it lasts a very short time because without rules,
the rule is: The strong take what they want from the weak.
Any strength comes in numbers, so very soon you have bands,
and clans like in some countries such as Afghanistan.
And they will be making the rules. Bye-bye anarchy.
I think we really need a very sophisticated government system that
was set up and thought out by the best heads / scientists and
developed with one priority: Justice and Equality.
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Anarchy:
O.K., I'm no expert on "anarchy" so go ahead and toast me, but I don't think
anarchy would work or would even exist for very long.
Anytime a government system totally fails, such as in riots and revolutions,
you have an anarchy. And it lasts a very short time because without rules,
the rule is: The strong take what they want from the weak.
Any strength comes in numbers, so very soon you have bands,
and clans like in some countries such as Afghanistan.
And they will be making the rules. Bye-bye anarchy.
I think we really need a very sophisticated government system that
was set up and thought out by the best heads / scientists and
developed with one priority: Justice and Equality.
How are scientists going to do that? :o ::)
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Well, everyone knows that
scientists seem to understand
political and philosophical issues
better than everyone else.
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Well, everyone knows that
scientists seem to understand
political and philosophical issues
better than everyone else.
QFTAnarchy:
O.K., I'm no expert on "anarchy" so go ahead and toast me, but I don't think
anarchy would work or would even exist for very long.
Anytime a government system totally fails, such as in riots and revolutions,
you have an anarchy. And it lasts a very short time because without rules,
the rule is: The strong take what they want from the weak.
Any strength comes in numbers, so very soon you have bands,
and clans like in some countries such as Afghanistan.
And they will be making the rules. Bye-bye anarchy.
Well, most anarchies are built upon some rules but without a central government to enforce them instead relying on the comunity. Usually the rules are relatively basic.
I think we really need a very sophisticated government system that
was set up and thought out by the best heads / scientists and
developed with one priority: Justice and Equality.
Sophistication leaves more and more room for corruption. Just as a sophisticated machine is harder to clean, a sophisticated government is as well, and we cannot claim that we will have a government without corruption either as we will have a government of human beings. Scientists are not the ones to create such a system, we would have political theorists, economists and other groups and the disagreements between them are so great and the terms of best so subjective that we cannot argue that we would have perfection in that so much as strife. Heck, some of the greatest minds in these subjects would argue against your very aims as being foolish. Finally, justice is a rather empty term. Humans have no way of determining justice, our various conflicting moral suppositions do not allow for a single code of justice to capture it all. In fact, in my worse moods I think that human beings should all die for being so freakin' stupid. As well, is equality really one of the highest of our goals anyway? If we had robots that automatically killed all human beings then we would have equality and according to some senses we would have justice but the system is not desirable to most. Not only that but what limits are put on equality? Not all people can be geniuses, in fact some are mentally retarded and physically handicapped, do we equalize those as well to create a society of retarded cripples?
-
Well, everyone knows that
scientists seem to understand
political and philosophical issues
better than everyone else.
QFT
Figures you would quote my sarcasm. :laugh:
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Figures you would quote my sarcasm. :laugh:
That was just dripping with sarcasm, I mean, being more sarcastic than that is almost a human impossibility. Of course I would love it! ;D
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Figures you would quote my sarcasm. :laugh:
That was just dripping with sarcasm, I mean, being more sarcastic than that is almost a human impossibility. Of course I would love it! ;D
TBH, I thought he was being serious.
Markie, what you conclude was the point we were getting to, that for anarchy to work everyone needs to govern themselves, which seems impossible.
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Figures you would quote my sarcasm. :laugh:
That was just dripping with sarcasm, I mean, being more sarcastic than that is almost a human impossibility. Of course I would love it! ;D
TBH, I thought he was being serious.
Markie, what you conclude was the point we were getting to, that for anarchy to work everyone needs to govern themselves, which seems impossible.
yes, especially today. at a time when government does most of peoples thinking for them, through legislation.
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Figures you would quote my sarcasm. :laugh:
That was just dripping with sarcasm, I mean, being more sarcastic than that is almost a human impossibility. Of course I would love it! ;D
TBH, I thought he was being serious.
And I thought "A Modest Proposal" was serious too. :asthing: