INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: DirtDawg on April 29, 2007, 06:39:45 AM
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My son just made me cry. He was asking about the war in Iraq. Led into the conversation from talking about dinosaurs, asking me wbout what happens to all the concentrations of organic chemicals that life collects, after a cataclism and how petroleum is formed ... blah blah ... we get to the war and he is under the assumption, from school, that the war is over and WE are re-building the country of Iraq. "It's good that the war is over", he said.
I completely lost it!
I need to talk to him a lot more, but I don't know where to start. I was becoming emotional and I did not want him to see my weakness or how the subject, in regard to his life, affects me. I gave him a quick change of subject and ditched him, while I bounced outside to reset.
When I was in control, I came back in and my daughter, who had been playing with her kitty in her room, but hearing, asked, "Daddy, what does it mean that the war is over?"
I don't know what to say. How much should I tell them?
How much detail about politics can an eight year old grasp? ... or a six year old? Is it time to explore more deeply the nature of humankind, with them?
Anybody got anything to add to my fears.
EDIT:
I know I said I cried, but it was actually that I stopped breathing and had trouble speaking and my face turned red from everything from being caught off guard, unprepared to absolute rage. Containing it was difficult, but I tried. It's still a "cry", though, from an overswelling of conflicting emotions.
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I think that he's probably old enough to
face a certain amount of truth here. That
the war IS over, but now we have to pay
some of the consequences for taking over
another country. And those consequences
seem to mean continued fighting, until we
give up.
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Um, the idea that they're probably well aware of your weakness? I knew exactly what it meant when my father would abruptly leave the room, clearing his throat.
With my complete and utter lack of parenting experience though, I'm not sure what's the best approach, except maybe to give whatever info they ask for, while watching for signs of upset-ness on their part and knowing when to stop and offer comfort.
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Yeah. But make sure you have your own
emotions in check when you explain it.
Your anger will upset them more than
any words that you can use.
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I don't know whether to be more pissed at the school, again or What The Fuck!
I am so happy with the way some aspects of the kids schooling are going, yet another BYTE from the BullShit side of the rightwing elements and I'm finding it hard to ignore.
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
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Um, the idea that they're probably well aware of your weakness? I knew exactly what it meant when my father would abruptly leave the room, clearing his throat.
With my complete and utter lack of parenting experience though, I'm not sure what's the best approach, except maybe to give whatever info they ask for, while watching for signs of upset-ness on their part and knowing when to stop and offer comfort.
I can't tell you how many levels of weakness I gave away before I bolted, but it was only for about a minute that I was out there and I was right back. We talked a bit more, but he was overloaded and crawled into his "drawing" shell. We will continue, later. I totally blew him away with my breakdown. The damage is done, but he is a smart kid and very resilient. We will talk again, about this and soon.
As far as my parenting approach ... I have always admitted to being a fallable human with the same weaknesses as he feeels and I'm sure he is more sensitive to my fluctuating state as a result.
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I don't know whether to be more pissed at the school, again or What The Fuck!
I am so happy with the way some aspects of the kids schooling are going, yet another BYTE from the BullShit side of the rightwing elements and I'm finding it hard to ignore.
You can always move to Sweden. Here they'll blame the entire war and Israel-Palestine conflict on the US and Israel in the schools and call the Iraqi and Palestinian terrorists "freedom fighters" or at least "resistance fighters"...
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
I know, but I am stunned to see what an amazing erection of nonsense I already have to tear down, in order to teach him anything of substance. The school has bveen moving much faster than I have, on this subject.
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I can't tell you how many levels of weakness I gave away before I bolted, but it was only for about a minute that I was out there and I was right back. We talked a bit more, but he was overloaded and crawled into his "drawing" shell. We will continue, later. I totally blew him away with my breakdown. The damage is done, but he is a smart kid and very resilient. We will talk again, about this and soon.
That would be the difference then, I expect. You come back.
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I don't know whether to be more pissed at the school, again or What The Fuck!
I am so happy with the way some aspects of the kids schooling are going, yet another BYTE from the BullShit side of the rightwing elements and I'm finding it hard to ignore.
You can always move to Sweden. Here they'll blame the entire war and Israel-Palestine conflict on the US and Israel in the schools and call the Iraqi and Palestinian terrorists "freedom fighters" or at least "resistance fighters"...
I want my son to know the same things that you and I know, but I am busy trying to give him valuable, usable, productive skills in coping and learning to understand what eh is perceiving in his environment and how to be independent and the school has decided, without reviewing it with ME, that he should be exposed to the political problems abroad.
They are clouding his sense of priority, while I'm not looking.
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i always just address all their questions as bluntly and honestly as possible.
i figure that they will find out anyways that life is not a fair game and i don't want them to ever think that their daddy is a liar. becuse i want them to trust that they can come to me with any problem that might come up.
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I can't tell you how many levels of weakness I gave away before I bolted, but it was only for about a minute that I was out there and I was right back. We talked a bit more, but he was overloaded and crawled into his "drawing" shell. We will continue, later. I totally blew him away with my breakdown. The damage is done, but he is a smart kid and very resilient. We will talk again, about this and soon.
That would be the difference then, I expect. You come back.
Your father didn't? That's terrible. What did you do?
... I mean, right then, when you were standing there, all hallowed out from your fathers extreme show of humanity and the weaknesses it implies?.
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That would be the difference then, I expect. You come back.
Your father didn't? That's terrible. What did you do?
... I mean, right then, when you were standing there, all hallowed out from your fathers extreme show of humanity and the weaknesses it implies?.
In the particular case I'm thinking of, my mother (who'd also been involved in the discussion) attempted to continue it for a few more minutes, and out-calmed me, so I went crying and running off to my respective corner and didn't bring up the subject with them again.
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and the school has decided, without reviewing it with ME, that he should be exposed to the political problems abroad.
They are clouding his sense of priority, while I'm not looking.
this is pure america is great propaganda.
when my kids come home and tell me that george bush is our leader i tell them that he isn't. he only serves the interests of a select few and that he stole the election.
by the age og eight, my daughters have a rough understanding of why they should question their government.
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i always just address all their questions as bluntly and honestly as possible.
i figure that they will find out anyways that life is not a fair game and i don't want them to ever think that their daddy is a liar. becuse i want them to trust that they can come to me with any problem that might come up.
Yes, I try hard to do that and get it done eventuallly. They are both sensitive to some things. I have to take small steps at times. I was just a little overstimmed, myself, and my son's bluntness and honesty was overwhelming, in conjunction with the shock of finding out how busy the school had already been.
Apparently I need to take some big steps very soon. I fear the cost, because I can not be other than honest with these questions of his. I'm OK, now, but he needs to be a kid for a while, again, before he's ready to do more.
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but he needs to be a kid for a while, again, before he's ready to do more.
i couldn't agree more. and answering these questions, imho, is the most difficult part of parenting.
but i have concluded that if they are old enough to show curiosity, then they are probably old enough to hear the answers.
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and the school has decided, without reviewing it with ME, that he should be exposed to the political problems abroad.
They are clouding his sense of priority, while I'm not looking.
this is pure america is great propaganda.
when my kids come home and tell me that george bush is our leader i tell them that he isn't. he only serves the interests of a select few and that he stole the election.
by the age og eight, my daughters have a rough understanding of why they should question their government.
You're a good father. :agreed: :plus: In our country, most people learn their kids to trust and obey the authorities... ::)
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and the school has decided, without reviewing it with ME, that he should be exposed to the political problems abroad.
They are clouding his sense of priority, while I'm not looking.
this is pure america is great propaganda.
when my kids come home and tell me that george bush is our leader i tell them that he isn't. he only serves the interests of a select few and that he stole the election.
by the age og eight, my daughters have a rough understanding of why they should question their government.
Your daughters are considerably ahead of my kids in those areas. My kids are amazing data collectors, but have trouble assimilating the information into usable forms and finding the network of understanding from that information. I have a ways to go, yet. My reaction to him, today did not help, either.
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I agree with Tig, McJ.
You're a good father.
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i try to teach them to question everything.....including myself.
i wan't my kids to be their own person not some carbon copy of me, my wife, or what their PC school is trying to jamb down their thraots.
i just have a theory that people are happier if they find themselves.
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
My mum has an uncanny ability to buy into whatever bullshit floats her way, and I'm always correcting her misconceptions.
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
My mum has an uncanny ability to buy into whatever bullshit floats her way, and I'm always correcting her misconceptions.
this presents another quandry in parenting.
kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
My mum has an uncanny ability to buy into whatever bullshit floats her way, and I'm always correcting her misconceptions.
My grandma is the same. She always thinks that the authorities are right and that everything on TV is true. Most elder Swedes do -- poor suckers. ::)
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but he needs to be a kid for a while, again, before he's ready to do more.
i couldn't agree more. and answering these questions, imho, is the most difficult part of parenting.
but i have concluded that if they are old enough to show curiosity, then they are probably old enough to hear the answers.
The real message I have taken is that he, the older, is ready for some more honesty and the need for me to do to do damage control is urgent.
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kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
Good question. I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know.
Kids don't rebel against everything, and they don't always rebel forever. They might go through an emo phase as teenagers and then grow out of it.
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kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
Good question. I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know.
Kids don't rebel against everything, and they don't always rebel forever. They might go through an emo phase as teenagers and then grow out of it.
petes mom is weak and he is strong. same here.
my grandparents smoked, my mom didn't, and i do.
i would agree that it isn't universal ( the rebellion), but i wonder if what they learn by finding themselves is that they aren't me.
shit i can't explain it well, right now.
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i try to teach them to question everything.....including myself.
i wan't my kids to be their own person not some carbon copy of me, my wife, or what their PC school is trying to jamb down their thraots.
i just have a theory that people are happier if they find themselves.
I certainly agree with this and it follows my plans exactly, but I hate being undercut and having to play catchup. I know I have probably been more focussed than I should have on the arts, lately and have kept them from some of life's grit, but it's time to be gritty, with my son at least.
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kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
Good question. I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know.
Kids don't rebel against everything, and they don't always rebel forever. They might go through an emo phase as teenagers and then grow out of it.
petes mom is weak and he is strong. same here.
my grandparents smoked, my mom didn't, and i do.
i would agree that it isn't universal ( the rebellion), but i wonder if what they learn by finding themselves is that they aren't me.
shit i can't explain it well, right now.
I simply think that all people with a strong personality rebel against what they consider unfair and illogical. People who never rebel are weak.
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petes mom is weak and he is strong. same here.
my grandparents smoked, my mom didn't, and i do.
i would agree that it isn't universal ( the rebellion), but i wonder if what they learn by finding themselves is that they aren't me.
They might take on some aspects of you and reject others.
I rebelled against my parents' philosophies, but not the androgynous upbringing. I'm not sure what determines what aspects the kids reject and what aspects they embrace.
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i try to teach them to question everything.....including myself.
i wan't my kids to be their own person not some carbon copy of me, my wife, or what their PC school is trying to jamb down their thraots.
i just have a theory that people are happier if they find themselves.
I certainly agree with this and it follows my plans exactly, but I hate being undercut and having to play catchup. I know I have probably been more focussed than I should have on the arts, lately and have kept them from some of life's grit, but it's time to be gritty, with my son at least.
yeah, i have been thinking about the school propaganda problem.
i guess you could start a petition. but most everybody would look at you as some sort of lunatic.
it's just extra work for you. be creative, make them get on board with your program like i do with the outside truck drivers. remember, they are just borrowing your kid. you are the one that all the responsibility ultimately falls on.
i guess it's all about family dinner, from your end. catch up on the days events then.
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kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
Good question. I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know.
Kids don't rebel against everything, and they don't always rebel forever. They might go through an emo phase as teenagers and then grow out of it.
petes mom is weak and he is strong. same here.
my grandparents smoked, my mom didn't, and i do.
i would agree that it isn't universal ( the rebellion), but i wonder if what they learn by finding themselves is that they aren't me.
shit i can't explain it well, right now.
I simply think that all people with a strong personality rebel against what they consider unfair and illogical. People who never rebel are weak.
simple yet perhaps true.
i need to think on this one somemore. thanks lit for the food for thought.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition. They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas. We had a teacher who was an active member of Greenpeace and who'd indoctrinate us with that stuff, and Christian head master who made us sing hymns and watch bible videos.
They might think you're mad, and decide to join the Bush youth and report you to their chapter leader, but you can't give them anything more than the truth.
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You can't protect people from being exposed to bullshit, but you can teach them how to detect and interpret it.
My mum has an uncanny ability to buy into whatever bullshit floats her way, and I'm always correcting her misconceptions.
Interesting, my mom is the same way. I have had to pick up the slack since my dad died. She will believe anything.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
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:agreed:
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kids tend to rebel. if i am trying to teach them to be strong, are they going to be weak?
Good question. I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know.
Kids don't rebel against everything, and they don't always rebel forever. They might go through an emo phase as teenagers and then grow out of it.
petes mom is weak and he is strong. same here.
my grandparents smoked, my mom didn't, and i do.
i would agree that it isn't universal ( the rebellion), but i wonder if what they learn by finding themselves is that they aren't me.
shit i can't explain it well, right now.
I simply think that all people with a strong personality rebel against what they consider unfair and illogical. People who never rebel are weak.
My son is extremely rebelious and a very capable free thinker. Some of the things he objects to are inspiring to me and we have very receptive and open moments in many areas as a result.
He understands quite a bit about the structure of the government as it is intended to work, but I have not been able to breech the "people barrier" with him much. He has no clue how badly we need to wash the scum off of our government's windows.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
i think he was just ranting in the first part
then complaining in the second part.
what if my kids turn out to be nimrods?
the school won't take into account their involvememnt. but i get to carry that burden my whole life.
personally, i think it is better for the parent to preach, rather than the school. but in the best case scenerio, teach them to be critical thinkers, even where you are concerned.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition. They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas. We had a teacher who was an active member of Greenpeace and who'd indoctrinate us with that stuff, and Christian head master who made us sing hymns and watch bible videos.
Sounds exactly like my primary school teachers. Alas. Such jerks should never be allowed to poison the minds of young people.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
Yes, I caught that as a severely well placed brainbullet, this morning.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
what if you have the same POV as the school.
are they getting several sides to consider, then?
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They also used the kids as a captive audience for their own political and religious agendas.
Does anyone else see the conflicting messages here?
"You shouldn't listen to people who use you as a captive audience for their political agendas, but here is my political agenda, and it's different, because it's right. What they tell you at school is indoctrination, but what I tell you is the way the world works."
Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
what if you have the same POV as the school.
are they getting several sides to consider, then?
But I don't. I agree though that it would be better to teach them about human fallibility and critical thinking skills. I'm just tired and in a pissy mood right now.
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Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
Depends how old your kid is and how tolerant your reaction is when they start questioning your deeply held beliefs. A young kid isn't going to follow all the logic of your rant, but will learn to mimic your emotional reaction.
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Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
Depends how old your kid is and how tolerant your reaction is when they start questioning your deeply held beliefs. A young kid isn't going to follow all the logic of your rant, but will learn to mimic your emotional reaction.
Which is a good reminder for why I decided long ago that it's best to avoid talking to anyone when I'm feeling shit like this. It never turns out well.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition.
One of the practical problems I have been working out is, believe it or not, controlling his lack of respect for his teachers intelligence. He is very questioning of things that he finds curious and expects a complete resolve and coordination with what he already knows. His teachers don't give him that, sometimes, and he gets out of hand. This is a "tiptoe area" subject, because I don't want him jumping up and yelling at his teachers, anymore.
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Which is a good reminder for why I decided long ago that it's best to avoid talking to anyone when I'm feeling shit like this. It never turns out well.
Lucky for you we're not young kids. :)
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
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Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
Depends how old your kid is and how tolerant your reaction is when they start questioning your deeply held beliefs. A young kid isn't going to follow all the logic of your rant, but will learn to mimic your emotional reaction.
Which is a good reminder for why I decided long ago that it's best to avoid talking to anyone when I'm feeling shit like this. It never turns out well.
No, Peter, it is good food for thought to toss around, which is what we are doing. It is a value to me to have contact with so many recently educated young people. Please, continue your thoughts.
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
I like that, but I also believe in the feeling he projected to the court.
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
I like that, but I also believe in the feeling he projected to the court.
I actually think the drunk was freed, because he claimed that he was sober when the accident happened but drank some booze out of a bottle he had in the car after the accident. I don't know if he would have gotten away with that in the US, but that kind of things are possible in Sweden. If they don't have like 100% proof, you go free, except if you're accused of attacking the government and authorities. Then you'll get a very hard punishment, usually much harder than if you did something against another citizen.
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Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
Depends how old your kid is and how tolerant your reaction is when they start questioning your deeply held beliefs. A young kid isn't going to follow all the logic of your rant, but will learn to mimic your emotional reaction.
Which is a good reminder for why I decided long ago that it's best to avoid talking to anyone when I'm feeling shit like this. It never turns out well.
No, Peter, it is good food for thought to toss around, which is what we are doing. It is a value to me to have contact with so many recently educated young people. Please, continue your thoughts.
My thoughts at the moment are mostly to do with violence and puking.
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That would be the difference then, I expect. You come back.
Your father didn't? That's terrible. What did you do?
... I mean, right then, when you were standing there, all hallowed out from your fathers extreme show of humanity and the weaknesses it implies?.
In the particular case I'm thinking of, my mother (who'd also been involved in the discussion) attempted to continue it for a few more minutes, and out-calmed me, so I went crying and running off to my respective corner and didn't bring up the subject with them again.
That's sad. I may be a basketcase, but I don't leave them hanging for long. I try to show them as much respect as possible, regarding their lack of ability to interpret quickly, emotionally impactful things. My son is easily overloaded with strong emotions, too and goes into mroe introverted behaviors.
... like a swinging tightrope at times.
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
I like that, but I also believe in the feeling he projected to the court.
I actually think the drunk was freed, because he claimed that he was sober when the accident happened but drank some booze out of a bottle he had in the car after the accident. I don't know if he would have gotten away with that in the US, but that kind of things are possible in Sweden. If they don't have like 100% proof, you go free, except if you're accused of attacking the government and authorities. Then you'll get a very hard punishment, usually much harder than if you did something against another citizen.
:litigious:
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Not really. It gets them questioning both sides until they find their own version of the truth, and gives them an explanation for why the truth from some people's perspective may not be reliable, and teaches them that someone, somewhere, is full of shit.
Depends how old your kid is and how tolerant your reaction is when they start questioning your deeply held beliefs. A young kid isn't going to follow all the logic of your rant, but will learn to mimic your emotional reaction.
Which is a good reminder for why I decided long ago that it's best to avoid talking to anyone when I'm feeling shit like this. It never turns out well.
No, Peter, it is good food for thought to toss around, which is what we are doing. It is a value to me to have contact with so many recently educated young people. Please, continue your thoughts.
My thoughts at the moment are mostly to do with violence and puking.
UGH! Sorry to hear it. I've had lots of coffee - I'm better.
While your thinking about it, how can I make them all violently puke for starting to build a nest in my son's mind!!
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That's sad. I may be a basketcase, but I don't leave them hanging for long. I try to show them as much respect as possible, regarding their lack of ability to interpret quickly, emotionally impactful things. My son is easily overloaded with strong emotions, too and goes into mroe introverted behaviors.
... like a swinging tightrope at times.
My family doesn't do emotion. This discussion I'm referring to was the last time I tried to get through to them. I was 17, not a kid. I checked, and I was remembering wrong. I didn't actually run off crying that time, my mother eventually said "this conversation isn't going anywhere," I said "all right" and left.
I don't know. How do you handle it when everyone involved is a hypersensitive spaz? The theory says walk away until you're calm and then talk about it more, but that's a lot of time-consuming desensitization work when every time you talk, things just spiral out of control again. The only viable solution I've found is to cut contact.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition.
One of the practical problems I have been working out is, believe it or not, controlling his lack of respect for his teachers intelligence. He is very questioning of things that he finds curious and expects a complete resolve and coordination with what he already knows. His teachers don't give him that, sometimes, and he gets out of hand. This is a "tiptoe area" subject, because I don't want him jumping up and yelling at his teachers, anymore.
why does it seem that one solution only leads to another problem?
perneting is a bitch. then you die and they take your money.
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:laugh: But then you're dead, so what does it matter?
So long as you can raise your kids not to be assassins, you should be okay.
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:laugh: But then you're dead, so what does it matter?
So long as you can raise your kids not to be assassins, you should be okay.
what about mindless sheep thought assassins?
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Well, that might be okay.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition.
One of the practical problems I have been working out is, believe it or not, controlling his lack of respect for his teachers intelligence. He is very questioning of things that he finds curious and expects a complete resolve and coordination with what he already knows. His teachers don't give him that, sometimes, and he gets out of hand. This is a "tiptoe area" subject, because I don't want him jumping up and yelling at his teachers, anymore.
why does it seem that one solution only leads to another problem?
perneting is a bitch. then you die and they take your money.
I love the irony of what you said.
There's no way I am going to hinder his creative thinking, if I can keep from it and as Peter observed, there is a lot of room to allow him to learn to doubt and question authority, even "mine". I want to help him learn to make his own decisions without standing on someone else's base, choosing his own bias. Learning a few difficult social protocols for school is hindrance enough, already, I think. Finding the balance, between the two, is where he needs the most help.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition.
One of the practical problems I have been working out is, believe it or not, controlling his lack of respect for his teachers intelligence. He is very questioning of things that he finds curious and expects a complete resolve and coordination with what he already knows. His teachers don't give him that, sometimes, and he gets out of hand. This is a "tiptoe area" subject, because I don't want him jumping up and yelling at his teachers, anymore.
why does it seem that one solution only leads to another problem?
perneting is a bitch. then you die and they take your money.
I love the irony of what you said.
There's no way I am going to hinder his creative thinking, if I can keep from it and as Peter observed, there is a lot of room to allow him to learn to doubt and question authority, even "mine". I want to help him learn to make his own decisions without standing on someone else's base, choosing his own bias. Learning a few difficult social protocols for school is hindrance enough, already, I think. Finding the balance, between the two, is where he needs the most help.
that is what i am searching for the most.
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I'm reminded of something my mom told me about myself as a kid, but I don't even remember. I was born in 1986, so I must have been 5 or 6. Anyway, my mom says that she used to ask me (in front of people) "Why is there a war on?"
"Oil!" I'd reply.
The 6-year-old jaded hippie.
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Also, you could explain to them that primary school teachers aren't exactly the brightest apples in the barrel. I remember them being as thick as shit when I was at school, and incapable of critical thought or understanding of subjects more advanced than finger painting and addition.
One of the practical problems I have been working out is, believe it or not, controlling his lack of respect for his teachers intelligence. He is very questioning of things that he finds curious and expects a complete resolve and coordination with what he already knows. His teachers don't give him that, sometimes, and he gets out of hand. This is a "tiptoe area" subject, because I don't want him jumping up and yelling at his teachers, anymore.
why does it seem that one solution only leads to another problem?
perneting is a bitch. then you die and they take your money.
I love the irony of what you said.
There's no way I am going to hinder his creative thinking, if I can keep from it and as Peter observed, there is a lot of room to allow him to learn to doubt and question authority, even "mine". I want to help him learn to make his own decisions without standing on someone else's base, choosing his own bias. Learning a few difficult social protocols for school is hindrance enough, already, I think. Finding the balance, between the two, is where he needs the most help.
that is what i am searching for the most.
Amen, brother.
I think we just closed the thread.
... but, I put this in the "free for all forum" for a reason, in spite of it being very personal.
I hope others will be inclined to comment, further. I would value input from several who have not shown up, today, yet.
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I'm reminded of something my mom told me about myself as a kid, but I don't even remember. I was born in 1986, so I must have been 5 or 6. Anyway, my mom says that she used to ask me (in front of people) "Why is there a war on?"
"Oil!" I'd reply.
The 6-year-old jaded hippie.
You were a treasure!
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I always hated the teachers for being ignorant, stupid, bullying twats. My bitterness towards them has faded over the years, but it's still there, and resurfaces occasionally. I remember the primary school teacher who thought that shellfish were actual fish. There was the teacher who, when I was coming out of a bout of severe depression that nobody had noticed, told me that I'd 'grown up', and all the others who completely failed to notice my glaringly obvious problems, and who put it down to stupidity and a lack of application, even when my mum approached them about it. I also remember being sent to the headmaster for wearing brown boots instead of black ones various times during a dress code purge, and the petty authoritarianism sickened me. Even now, I want to hunt down and kick the crap out of some of my teachers, and then tell them what pathetic, petty, stupid shits they are.
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:agreed: :plus:
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I am more than double your age, Peter and those urges are still there, to a degree. It seems that there was always another fight to have to get through and you seldom get the chance to go back and finish the old ones, that you missed. You will eventually learn an enhanced appreciation for the obituary pages.
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I am more than double your age, Peter and those urges are still there, to a degree. It seems that there was always another fight to have to get through and you seldom get the chance to go back and finish the old ones, that you missed. You will eventually learn an enhanced appreciation for the obituary pages.
Just as long as they say "Had his legs hacked off by a disgruntled ex-pupil" and not "Died peacefully in his sleep".
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What a wonderful world it'd be if you could get even on all those useless cowardly no-good power-abusing creeps. :evillaugh: :angel:
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...you mean, like starting some sort of multiple-killing type action?
Almost like a little war?
It's interesting to think of how little non-self-directed hate I actually harbor in comparison to other people. I'm noticing this more and more, not just on here but in real life.
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...you mean, like starting some sort of multiple-killing type action?
Almost like a little war?
It's interesting to think of how little non-self-directed hate I actually harbor in comparison to other people. I'm noticing this more and more, not just on here but in real life.
Can you turn any of that self-directed hate to some more useful direction?
... maybe join in a little fantasy teacher shredding?
... are you an, as yet, unidentified ex-pupil?
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...you mean, like starting some sort of multiple-killing type action?
Almost like a little war?
YES!!! :arrr:
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I always hated the teachers for being ignorant, stupid, bullying twats. My bitterness towards them has faded over the years, but it's still there, and resurfaces occasionally. I remember the primary school teacher who thought that shellfish were actual fish. There was the teacher who, when I was coming out of a bout of severe depression that nobody had noticed, told me that I'd 'grown up', and all the others who completely failed to notice my glaringly obvious problems, and who put it down to stupidity and a lack of application, even when my mum approached them about it. I also remember being sent to the headmaster for wearing brown boots instead of black ones various times during a dress code purge, and the petty authoritarianism sickened me. Even now, I want to hunt down and kick the crap out of some of my teachers, and then tell them what pathetic, petty, stupid shits they are.
I maintained a simmering hate towards several staff members from my middle school for many years, playing out violent fantasies in my head regarding one particular sadist. Its lessened over the years as I've finally moved on I guess; I'd still piss in his beer if I met him in a pub, but I wouldn't put him in hospital, which ten years ago I might well have. Little Hitlers. :headexplode:
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...you mean, like starting some sort of multiple-killing type action?
Almost like a little war?
It's interesting to think of how little non-self-directed hate I actually harbor in comparison to other people. I'm noticing this more and more, not just on here but in real life.
Can you turn any of that self-directed hate to some more useful direction?
... maybe join in a little fantasy teacher shredding?
... are you an, as yet, unidentified ex-pupil?
I've had too damn many teachers. Anyway, I've discovered that it's much more socially acceptable to internalize, and you'll go father in life harming yourself than harming others (unless you're either very covert or very rich; I'm neither).
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....... and the school has decided, without reviewing it with ME, that he should be exposed to the political problems abroad.
They are clouding his sense of priority, while I'm not looking.
This is very common in the Public school system. The liberal teachers unions have completely currupted teaching agenda.
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How much detail about politics can an eight year old grasp? ... or a six year old? Is it time to explore more deeply the nature of humankind, with them?
Anybody got anything to add to my fears.
You can start out by pointing to the obvious, that humans are social and live in groups. As soon as groups form, Theres a need for someone to be in charge. More than one person wants to be in charge so those who want to be in charge, end up fighting over it.
That should be a good starting point to get the discussion started.
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i just have a theory that people are happier if they find themselves.
This theory must be stamped out............... Can't let it spread........................... must conform, must conform, must conform, must conform, must conform............ :insane:
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They might think you're mad, and decide to join the Bush youth and report you to their chapter leader, but you can't give them anything more than the truth.
Again Peter, while there's some truth to this, this isn't a uniquely American thing. You'll find the same problems in any large Industrialized Nation.
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Like Sweden. Though Sweden is more like old communist Russia. :(
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
I like that, but I also believe in the feeling he projected to the court.
I actually think the drunk was freed, because he claimed that he was sober when the accident happened but drank some booze out of a bottle he had in the car after the accident. I don't know if he would have gotten away with that in the US, but that kind of things are possible in Sweden. If they don't have like 100% proof, you go free, except if you're accused of attacking the government and authorities. Then you'll get a very hard punishment, usually much harder than if you did something against another citizen.
Is this the sort of inept corruption the US gets to look forward to? :-\
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Explain to them how politics in the US really work; how big corporations finance candidates who'll serve their purposes and that it's impossible to get elected without huge amounts of money from corporate and religious sources, necessitating that you support the interests of those groups at the expense of the interests of the US public, that the big news corporations toe the government line to avoid getting into trouble and having their profits hit, and that the US has a deeply nationalistic culture with disturbing parallels to fascist societies (oaths of allegiance, saluting the flag etc).
They might think you're mad, and decide to join the Bush youth and report you to their chapter leader, but you can't give them anything more than the truth.
Again Peter, while there's some truth to this, this isn't a uniquely American thing. You'll find the same problems in any large Industrialized Nation.
I know.
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My father was a devoted social democrat when I was a kid. I strongly opposed his political views, but at the same time I admired his courage. There once was a drunk driver that smashed into a rock outside our house when I was about 10 years old. My father testified against the drunk in court. He said that "If this irresponsible bastard had hit one of my sons instead of the rock, we wouldn't have had this trial today." "How is that?", the judge asked. "Because he wouldn't have been alive. There might have been a trial, but not against him." That was a pretty un-Swedish thing to say, especially in court.
I like that, but I also believe in the feeling he projected to the court.
I actually think the drunk was freed, because he claimed that he was sober when the accident happened but drank some booze out of a bottle he had in the car after the accident. I don't know if he would have gotten away with that in the US, but that kind of things are possible in Sweden. If they don't have like 100% proof, you go free, except if you're accused of attacking the government and authorities. Then you'll get a very hard punishment, usually much harder than if you did something against another citizen.
Is this the sort of inept corruption the US gets to look forward to? :-\
I'm afraid so. If you get "Euro". :(
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Is this the sort of inept corruption the US gets to look forward to? :-\
I'm afraid so. If you get "Euro". :(
I'm moving to Uraguay. :grrr:
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I don't know whether to be more pissed at the school, again or What The Fuck!
I am so happy with the way some aspects of the kids schooling are going, yet another BYTE from the BullShit side of the rightwing elements and I'm finding it hard to ignore.
You can always move to Sweden. Here they'll blame the entire war and Israel-Palestine conflict on the US and Israel in the schools and call the Iraqi and Palestinian terrorists "freedom fighters" or at least "resistance fighters"...
:bssign:
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In our country, most people learn their kids to trust and obey the authorities... ::)
:bssign:
Says the guy without any kids. ::)
Will you stop turning everything into a personal vendetta against anyone and anything Swedish?
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In our country, most people learn their kids to trust and obey the authorities... ::)
:bssign:
Says the guy without any kids. ::)
Will you stop turning everything into a personal vendetta against anyone and anything Swedish?
odeon, would you care to add anything else to the discussion, as a parent yourself. or, would you just like to set Litigious straight?
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In our country, most people learn their kids to trust and obey the authorities... ::)
:bssign:
Says the guy without any kids. ::)
Will you stop turning everything into a personal vendetta against anyone and anything Swedish?
odeon, would you care to add anything else to the discussion, as a parent yourself. or, would you just like to set Litigious straight?
My goal was to set Lit straight because not everything is--or should be--about what a bad country Sweden is, according to his opinion. Lit's arguments are not always without merit--far from it--but he hurts his cause by painting everything in black and white. Mostly black, as a matter of fact.
Other than that, no. I think the issues have been reasonably well covered and I did not feel the need to add my 0.02 when I read the thread.
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In our country, most people learn their kids to trust and obey the authorities... ::)
:bssign:
Says the guy without any kids. ::)
Will you stop turning everything into a personal vendetta against anyone and anything Swedish?
odeon, would you care to add anything else to the discussion, as a parent yourself. or, would you just like to set Litigious straight?
My goal was to set Lit straight because not everything is--or should be--about what a bad country Sweden is, according to his opinion. Lit's arguments are not always without merit--far from it--but he hurts his cause by painting everything in black and white. Mostly black, as a matter of fact.
Other than that, no. I think the issues have been reasonably well covered and I did not feel the need to add my 0.02 when I read the thread.
Bummer!
I feel cheated. I thought I had started a decent discussion, for once.
:-\
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You did start an interesting topic. I started reading and thinking about it, and got stopped in my tracks by Lit's turning it all into another blame-it-on-the-cowardly-Swedes rant. Sorry. :-[
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But OK, my comments on the original post: I sort of agree with Calandale in that he's old enough to be told some not-so-easily explained facts about the war, what happened, and how. Exactly what you tell is really about your values; is it a "good" war or a "bad" war, was it right to do it, is it right to stay, etc. Kids are surprisingly resilient, and while they could easily cry, depending on exactly what they find out about the subject, the crying in itself is a very natural reaction and nothing to be avoided if the matter is serious enough.
Of course, it wouldn't do any good to quote numbers from the Iraq Body Count website or the like, and I see no reason to emphasize just how many people that still get hurt every day, but I'm sure the kid will pick up some of it, eventually, and it's better to have paved the way to that next time when he asks, again, AFTER having watched a news clip or a headline from somewhere and better knows what to ask.
My kids know some things about the war, and inevitably, when they ask, my values come through. And yes, my now 10-yo daughter did cry when she first understood just how serious the situation is, and that so many people do get killed. She was scared and thought that it could happen here, too.
(I wasn't the one to tell her but she has friends at school who apparently know more.)
I told you; it was just my 0.02, and nothing new. :)
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Maybe let him know that there was never a war anyway.
Just the various armies fighting. It's an interesting way
to bring up the whole US ideal of killing people without
war. At least the Brits declared war on Argentina.
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Thanks, Odeon, I am glad to have your comments, as always and your thinking is along the same lines as mine, although the events of the day seemed to compress the timetable. We talked a good bit more as the day progressed. I gave him a lot to think about. I went to several sites to get pictures and more info in graphic and text form for him, when I was supposedly "in the chatroom with the boys" and we talked even more. I hope I haven't given the impression that my son is naive, because he certainly is not, for an eight year old, even though we had only barely touched the subject of war.
He has a good basis of how our system is SUPPOSED to work. He understands "things and stuff", just fine, but he has a tough time understanding many of the things that "people" do. What made me stop breathing, this morning, was the innocence and confidence with which he presented his little propaganda, 'war is over' speech, more than anything else and I completely had not seen this coming. I am the one who is naive. I just thought I had a little more time to sort through these issues, one on one with him, before they started programming him in the fucking second grade.
BTW, I was actually kidding about feeling cheated bit. The absurdity of that was intended to amuse you, not make you feel you had a lever under your arse.
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You did start an interesting topic. I started reading and thinking about it, and got stopped in my tracks by Lit's turning it all into another blame-it-on-the-cowardly-Swedes rant. Sorry. :-[
What did the left wing cowards in the parliament say when the Yanks as only country dared to try stopping the killing in Yugoslavia? Did they say "Hurrah, America is going to stop the killing in Yugoslavia, since we Europeans are too much of pussies to do it ourselves"?
No. They condemned the US. As usual. Who the fuck is Sweden to condemn and speak morals to other countries? Sweden let Nazi Germany send troops through our country during WWII. Sweden sent refugees from the Baltic states back to the Soviet Union after WWII, on Soviet demands, to death or slave labor camps. Sweden is one of the or the most cowardly country on this planet. Swedish authorities and politicians act like Big Brother or KGB towards their own citizens but lick foreign countries arses, if they're more powerful.
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Sweden condemned the US for going into Bosnia ??
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Sweden condemned the US for going into Bosnia ??
Not all parties, but the lefties did, of course.
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The communists (they don't call themselves that anymore, but in my opinion they are) and environment party would in principle condemn anything America did, no matter what. ::)
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Sweden condemned the US for going into Bosnia ??
Not all parties, but the lefties did, of course.
I'm not a lefty but I condemned that war because once again, the media painted a picture that was very different from the truth. I never saw the Serbs as the only bad guys around but at the time, that was the PC view.
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Thanks, Odeon, I am glad to have your comments, as always and your thinking is along the same lines as mine, although the events of the day seemed to compress the timetable. We talked a good bit more as the day progressed. I gave him a lot to think about. I went to several sites to get pictures and more info in graphic and text form for him, when I was supposedly "in the chatroom with the boys" and we talked even more. I hope I haven't given the impression that my son is naive, because he certainly is not, for an eight year old, even though we had only barely touched the subject of war.
DD, in my opinion, children are seldom naive. They're young and inexperienced, but there is often a clarity in their thinking that disappears, somehow, later in life. :-\
BTW, I was actually kidding about feeling cheated bit. The absurdity of that was intended to amuse you, not make you feel you had a lever under your arse.
Oh. :asthing: :-[
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Tell him that there are a lot of stupid people, and we've made a whole bunch of mistakes, and people have thought about why this happens and how to fix it for about as long as they've been capable of it, and for the most part the only thing you can do is grit your teeth and bear it, however people will respect you more if you figure out how you can help out, even if it is in a small way, and do it.
Researching the source of human stupidity will teach him everything else.
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Tell him that there are a lot of stupid people, and we've made a whole bunch of mistakes, and people have thought about why this happens and how to fix it for about as long as they've been capable of it, and for the most part the only thing you can do is grit your teeth and bear it, however people will respect you more if you figure out how you can help out, even if it is in a small way, and do it.
Like we're helping out in Iraq, right?
(I don't really get your meaning)
Researching the source of human stupidity will teach him everything else.
This is actually fairly clever, even "rounded off" and oversimplified this way.
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Most help people are capable of individually wont significantly help what ever cause they are contributing to. So appealing to a persons desire to be considered at least not part of the problem will more likely get them to do the small bit of help they are capable of.
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Hi Calamity,
It really is frustring when you feel that your child is being taught by simpletons, isn't it?
My recommendation to you would be to probe the intelligence that your son already has about the war...what makes you think the war is over? etc. and try to see within what context his information is framed. We know the war is not over, the men and women who are there still fighting know the war is not over...so when he answers (it may be something like "We were shown a picture of Geo. Bush on a ship with a sign that says 'Mission Accomplished.'") you can ask him follow-up questions, like why do you think the war is over? And so forth. These questions will serve several functions: 1) They will give you an understanding of his knowledge base of the issue and what he is being taught. 2) They will give you some indication of the political ideology of his teachers/school. 3) They will teach your son, implicity, to question his own basis of knowledge and to question what he is intellectually fed by others...teach him to be a critical thinker...
Rhonda
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
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I effectively am a child, so
I guess that should qualify.
Most of the others seem to
be giving their own advice,
rather than soliciting it from
their children
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
No, my kids haven't given DD any advice. :P
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Hi Calamity,
It really is frustring when you feel that your child is being taught by simpletons, isn't it?
My recommendation to you would be to probe the intelligence that your son already has about the war...what makes you think the war is over? etc. and try to see within what context his information is framed. We know the war is not over, the men and women who are there still fighting know the war is not over...so when he answers (it may be something like "We were shown a picture of Geo. Bush on a ship with a sign that says 'Mission Accomplished.'") you can ask him follow-up questions, like why do you think the war is over? And so forth. These questions will serve several functions: 1) They will give you an understanding of his knowledge base of the issue and what he is being taught. 2) They will give you some indication of the political ideology of his teachers/school. 3) They will teach your son, implicity, to question his own basis of knowledge and to question what he is intellectually fed by others...teach him to be a critical thinker...
Rhonda
Hi, Rhonda, Glad to see you here. Hope you're tough enough inclined to stay a while.
Your comments sum up where I am trying to get to with my son. He is an autistic eight year old, quite advanced, beyond believability, in some areas and somewhat hindered in others. We have made progress this week, as much as he is receptive to. Going can be slow and that is what shocked me so - how far he had been taken, before I "clued in" to what was happening.
If it was simpletons I was dealing with, I could just take up the slack from time to time, but they know what they are doing. If I sound paranoid, it's because I am, but with reason.
Thanks for your insights.
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
Hey Richard, thanks for watching my back, but I would welcome any comments from anyone. At the end of the day we can all sift through them, if needed.
What about you? What do you think?
I know you don't care much for current events, which is fine, but go ahead and speak out as a young, "invulnerable" man, please.
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
No, my kids haven't given DD any advice. :P
:clap:
They have given advice to you, though. I hope you have learned as much from your kids as I have from mine. I did not know that Class 101 went at this pace.
:laugh:
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
No, my kids haven't given DD any advice. :P
:clap:
They have given advice to you, though. I hope you have learned as much from your kids as I have from mine. I did not know that Class 101 went at this pace.
:laugh:
Shock treatment, I believe it's called. :)
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do any of you have kids that are giving dirtdawg advice?
Hey Richard, thanks for watching my back,.
its what i do 8)
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I don't think he meant backside.
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no. he ment watching out for him. + intrests
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Hi Calamity,
It really is frustring when you feel that your child is being taught by simpletons, isn't it?
My recommendation to you would be to probe the intelligence that your son already has about the war...what makes you think the war is over? etc. and try to see within what context his information is framed. We know the war is not over, the men and women who are there still fighting know the war is not over...so when he answers (it may be something like "We were shown a picture of Geo. Bush on a ship with a sign that says 'Mission Accomplished.'") you can ask him follow-up questions, like why do you think the war is over? And so forth. These questions will serve several functions: 1) They will give you an understanding of his knowledge base of the issue and what he is being taught. 2) They will give you some indication of the political ideology of his teachers/school. 3) They will teach your son, implicity, to question his own basis of knowledge and to question what he is intellectually fed by others...teach him to be a critical thinker...
Rhonda
Hi, Rhonda, Glad to see you here. Hope you're tough enough inclined to stay a while.
Your comments sum up where I am trying to get to with my son. He is an autistic eight year old, quite advanced, beyond believability, in some areas and somewhat hindered in others. We have made progress this week, as much as he is receptive to. Going can be slow and that is what shocked me so - how far he had been taken, before I "clued in" to what was happening.
If it was simpletons I was dealing with, I could just take up the slack from time to time, but they know what they are doing. If I sound paranoid, it's because I am, but with reason.
Thanks for your insights.
Well, I hope you are able to stay ahead of the game now that you know what's going on there! It would be very frustrating!!! I feel for you Jane. I'm sure I will be in similar shoes in another five years. We have to stay vigilant.
RJ