INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: Scrapheap on March 07, 2007, 11:23:04 PM
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At first I thought I had read incorrectly.
WASHINGTON - House Democratic leaders intend to propose legislation requiring the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the fall of 2008, and even earlier if the Iraqi government fails to meet security and other goals, Democratic officials said Wednesday night.
Withdraw forces EARLIER if Iraqi's fail to meet goals?? HELLO !!! If Iraqi's are failing to meet security goals it's because we need MORE forces not less. Furthermore they allow for an extention if the goals ARE met. HELLO THE FUCK AGAIN !!! If security goals ARE met, we will need LESS forces and we can leave SOONER.
Many conservative pundits have said that the Demecrats are willing to allow Iraq to disinigrate to embarras the president. I did'nt give those comments much weight untill now. FUCK politics is a dirty buisness.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17510666/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17510666/)
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Pelosi is behind this legislation. It's going to tie the hands of the military personnel already over there, unfortunately.
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if the iraqis fail to meet security measures....
this is why we should pull out. why should we have young americans die for the continuing profits (record profits) of the oil companies?
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why should we have young americans die for the continuing profits (record profits) of the oil companies?
Theoretically because we already made an investment in human lives and if we don't finish what we started(which btw I am of the opinion is impossible at this point) then their sacrifice was in vain.
The only thing I see happening is that Iraq will break up into countries that have a ethnic/religious seperation they will tolerate. And this will happen before or after we leave, but after they form into stable countries, all of their problems will be blamed on us for the next 50 years.
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we won't get the credit if everything goes right in iraq, but we will get the blame if everything goes wrong.
a great general knows when it is wise to stay and fight, or withdraw. you cannot win em all.
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I am fine with the troops coming home, but what is bothering me is that when problems come around in 6 months they are going to be bitching about how the democrats lost the war because they weren't willing to go all the way. God dammit.
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if the iraqis fail to meet security measures....
this is why we should pull out. why should we have young americans die for the continuing profits (record profits) of the oil companies?
Oil companies will profit iether way. If the Iraqi Gov. falls, Iranian oil wins. Do we want that ?? ?? ??
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if the iraqis fail to meet security measures....
this is why we should pull out. why should we have young americans die for the continuing profits (record profits) of the oil companies?
Oil companies will profit iether way. If the Iraqi Gov. falls, Iranian oil wins. Do we want that ?? ?? ??
Not enough to pay for it now. We are a society that demands instant gratification. Plus, at this point it may be impossible to keep the government intact.
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we won't get the credit if everything goes right in iraq, but we will get the blame if everything goes wrong.
There are wimpy politicians in Europe that never would risk anything at all themselves but always blame the US when you do something. Swedish politicians are among the worst. I don't know why they should be in any position to judge. They cooperated with Nazi Germany because they feared an invasion. They act cowardly against Russia and against terrorists. They have never done anything brave themselves, but they always throw shit on the US when you do something, no matter if you do it 100% right.
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it is my belief that politicians rarely get anything right.
so i say excercise on the side of caution and don't let the politicians do anything.
leave people alone.
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it is my belief that politicians rarely get anything right.
so i say excercise on the side of caution and don't let the politicians do anything.
leave people alone.
I agree to 100%. But that should have been done a long time ago, before those bastards became so powerful. :(
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it is my belief that politicians rarely get anything right.
so i say excercise on the side of caution and don't let the politicians do anything.
leave people alone.
I agree to 100%. But that should have been done a long time ago, before those bastards became so powerful. :(
vote the new guy in.
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vote the new guy in.
Come meet the new boss...... same as the old boss...
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vote the new guy in.
Come meet the new boss...... same as the old boss...
That's what I think, too, alas. :(
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No matter who you vote for, the fucking politicians always seem to get in. Power to the people!
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Anarchy! :arrr: :woohoo: :flamer:
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:arrr: :arrr: :arrr:
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
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No matter who you vote for, the fucking politicians always seem to get in. Power to the people!
I agree. if we pull a coup, and install myself as leader of the USA, and purge all of the politicos to gulags in Alaska things would work MUCH better.
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
Some people always blame the US, though. Who'd have cleaned up the shit in Ex-Yugoslavia, if not the Yanks? Not Sweden, anyway. ::)
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No matter who you vote for, the fucking politicians always seem to get in. Power to the people!
I agree. if we pull a coup, and install myself as leader of the USA, and purge all of the politicos to gulags in Alaska things would work MUCH better.
I think aspie dictatorship is the best. I'd like to become leader of Europe and deport all NT politicians in Brussels and Stockholm to Siberia. :evillaugh: 8)
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
Some people always blame the US, though. Who'd have cleaned up the shit in Ex-Yugoslavia, if not the Yanks? Not Sweden, anyway. ::)
That particular issue was, and still is, far more complex than that.
As for Iraq, the US is not without blame. Nobody forced Bush to attack; he lied to start the war.
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Sweden has, at least not for about 200 years, done something to be proud of. It has, however, done a lot to be ashamed of, like passively and actively help more powerful nations, more than once dictatorships. America fought the nazis. Sweden let them pass through to the front after that our neighbour countries had been occupied by them. After the war, Sweden handed over POWs from Germany and the Baltic states to the Soviet Union, to face death in prison camps. How brave! ::)
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Lit, apart from us talking about two different issues (and I really think that Iraq in 2002 had nothing to do with Germany in 1939 or 1941), war is not something to be proud of. It doesn't make a nation great.
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I don't think that a nation like Sweden, with a history of more or less collaboration with dictatorships, should have the right to throw the first rock.
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I don't think that a nation like Sweden, with a history of more or less collaboration with dictatorships, should have the right to throw the first rock.
???
We don't. It's been years since we were part of any war. What's this gotta do with anything?
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I don't think that a nation like Sweden, with a history of more or less collaboration with dictatorships, should have the right to throw the first rock.
???
We don't. It's been years since we were part of any war. What's this gotta do with anything?
What I mean is that Sweden is one of the first countries to criticize other contries' foreign policy, especially the US and Israel, though Sweden has no reason to be proud of its own international behaviour. Sweden has licked to much dictator arse to be in any position to judge other countries...
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I strongly disagree. Having avoided the second world war does not mean that we cannot criticize the US for starting a war on false grounds.
Free speech is free speech, Lit. You can't have it both ways.
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All I mean is that Sweden always has opinions, not just on the war in Iraq, but on everything, and it usually condemns the US and Israel and speaks very "moralistic", as some from higher point of view. But Sweden hasn't got more morals than other countries, rather on the contrary. It has nothing to do with free speech. Such behavior is called hypocracy.
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I ask again: how is this opinion of yours relevant to the discussion at hand?
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It really doesn't but it gave me a good opportunity to rant about Sweden. 8)
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all topics go off on tangents here an the I².
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
You haven't been following it close lately, with stepped up US patrols, the violence has gone down considerably in the areas they've patrolled.
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.......war is not something to be proud of. It doesn't make a nation great.
There's 6000 years of recorded human history that contradicts this.
Many great thinkers (The Chinese General Sun Tzu comes to mind) have said that the primary reason nations exist is to create the capacity to fight wars. War is something every successful nation must engage in.
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Sweden was very engaged in wars some hundred years ago, before we got our arses thouroghly kicked by Russia. Ever since, this has been the wimpy country that it still is today.
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
You haven't been following it close lately, with stepped up US patrols, the violence has gone down considerably in the areas they've patrolled.
But I do follow it closely.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/editorial/weekiniraq/
There was a marked decrease in violence this week, however, when around 450 civilians died.
That's a good sign, right?
Of course, if you have enough troops in place, the violence will go down. But it's all relative. 450 people in Iraq last week is an improvement from February, when roughly 97 people died there every day, but I doubt those numbers would be anywhere near acceptable elsewhere in the world.
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It is to bad America got involved in Iraq. What I fear that with terrorism in Iraq is a good trainning ground for terrorists, and will spread terrorism even more further.
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It is to bad America got involved in Iraq. What I fear that with terrorism in Iraq is a good trainning ground for terrorists, and will spread terrorism even more further.
for every action....
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There is a reaction.
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But I do follow it closely.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/editorial/weekiniraq/
This is an activist site with an obvious agenda. Can you do better ??
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
Oh, I wish more Swedes would have that attitude. More Americans too, for that matter, but especially more Swedes. :(
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
Oh, I wish more Swedes would have that attitude. More Americans too, for that matter, but especially more Swedes. :(
i mean this in a societal sense.
individuals should always act.... in their best interest.
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
Oh, I wish more Swedes would have that attitude. More Americans too, for that matter, but especially more Swedes. :(
i mean this in a societal sense.
individuals should always act.... in their best interest.
What do you think about guys like these? http://www.kysm.org/mission.htm
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
Oh, I wish more Swedes would have that attitude. More Americans too, for that matter, but especially more Swedes. :(
i mean this in a societal sense.
individuals should always act.... in their best interest.
What do you think about guys like these? http://www.kysm.org/mission.htm
sounds to me as if they take the original intent of the Constitution seriously.
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There is a reaction.
Then comes a opposite equal or worse reaction.
so politicians should tread carefully, or not at all.
Oh, I wish more Swedes would have that attitude. More Americans too, for that matter, but especially more Swedes. :(
i mean this in a societal sense.
individuals should always act.... in their best interest.
What do you think about guys like these? http://www.kysm.org/mission.htm
sounds to me as if they take the original intent of the Constitution seriously.
Yep. That link was posted on a Swedish board i visit, though, by a guy who wanted to ridicule Americans...
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what is there to make fun of?
We accept and welcome all who wish to preserve our freedoms and maintain a civilization we can be proud to leave our children and grandchildren; regardless of race, sex, or religion. We maintain a firm belief that every man, woman, or family may live, worship, and teach their children as they wish for so long as it respects the personal rights and beliefs of others. Every individual is entitled to his or her own opinion and is under no requirement to explain that opinion to others. However, as a group, KSM will not tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, or prejudice of sex. All are welcome and will be treated with respect. If you are interested, but have reservations based on the stereotypical, "militias are hate mongers, racists, and backwoods idiots running around shooting in the woods," descriptions constantly purported in our liberal news medias, then I challenge you personally to see for yourself. Your privacy is assured and there are no records or paper trails that can be used to track our members.
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what is there to make fun of?
We accept and welcome all who wish to preserve our freedoms and maintain a civilization we can be proud to leave our children and grandchildren; regardless of race, sex, or religion. We maintain a firm belief that every man, woman, or family may live, worship, and teach their children as they wish for so long as it respects the personal rights and beliefs of others. Every individual is entitled to his or her own opinion and is under no requirement to explain that opinion to others. However, as a group, KSM will not tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, or prejudice of sex. All are welcome and will be treated with respect. If you are interested, but have reservations based on the stereotypical, "militias are hate mongers, racists, and backwoods idiots running around shooting in the woods," descriptions constantly purported in our liberal news medias, then I challenge you personally to see for yourself. Your privacy is assured and there are no records or paper trails that can be used to track our members.
You don't understand the Swedish mentality. Swedes usually think that anyone joining a private militia must be a total nut.
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what is there to make fun of?
We accept and welcome all who wish to preserve our freedoms and maintain a civilization we can be proud to leave our children and grandchildren; regardless of race, sex, or religion. We maintain a firm belief that every man, woman, or family may live, worship, and teach their children as they wish for so long as it respects the personal rights and beliefs of others. Every individual is entitled to his or her own opinion and is under no requirement to explain that opinion to others. However, as a group, KSM will not tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, or prejudice of sex. All are welcome and will be treated with respect. If you are interested, but have reservations based on the stereotypical, "militias are hate mongers, racists, and backwoods idiots running around shooting in the woods," descriptions constantly purported in our liberal news medias, then I challenge you personally to see for yourself. Your privacy is assured and there are no records or paper trails that can be used to track our members.
You don't understand the Swedish mentality. Swedes usually think that anyone joining a private militia must be a total nut.
i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
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what is there to make fun of?
We accept and welcome all who wish to preserve our freedoms and maintain a civilization we can be proud to leave our children and grandchildren; regardless of race, sex, or religion. We maintain a firm belief that every man, woman, or family may live, worship, and teach their children as they wish for so long as it respects the personal rights and beliefs of others. Every individual is entitled to his or her own opinion and is under no requirement to explain that opinion to others. However, as a group, KSM will not tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, or prejudice of sex. All are welcome and will be treated with respect. If you are interested, but have reservations based on the stereotypical, "militias are hate mongers, racists, and backwoods idiots running around shooting in the woods," descriptions constantly purported in our liberal news medias, then I challenge you personally to see for yourself. Your privacy is assured and there are no records or paper trails that can be used to track our members.
The fact that they see the Southern Poverty Law Center and Anti Defamation League as threats to personal freedom make you wonder how hollow that is. I was about to say they sounded like a fucking good idea until I spotted those on their list of threats.
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what is there to make fun of?
We accept and welcome all who wish to preserve our freedoms and maintain a civilization we can be proud to leave our children and grandchildren; regardless of race, sex, or religion. We maintain a firm belief that every man, woman, or family may live, worship, and teach their children as they wish for so long as it respects the personal rights and beliefs of others. Every individual is entitled to his or her own opinion and is under no requirement to explain that opinion to others. However, as a group, KSM will not tolerate racism, anti-Semitism, or prejudice of sex. All are welcome and will be treated with respect. If you are interested, but have reservations based on the stereotypical, "militias are hate mongers, racists, and backwoods idiots running around shooting in the woods," descriptions constantly purported in our liberal news medias, then I challenge you personally to see for yourself. Your privacy is assured and there are no records or paper trails that can be used to track our members.
You don't understand the Swedish mentality. Swedes usually think that anyone joining a private militia must be a total nut.
i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
Yes, he's probably the most typical Swede among the four of us here. I'm the most untypical Swede.
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so then, i dx odeon as ST (Swedish Typical).
edit:
i only notice the missing letters once someone quotes me.
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so then i dx odeon as ST (Swedish Typical).
Yep. 8)
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I really have no idea why Swedes are so much anti-guns, by the way. The legislation is about as old and as restrictive as in most European countries, but guns have been pretty "impopular" in Sweden for about a century or so. It might have something to do with the peace movement being so early and so strong in Sweden.
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But I do follow it closely.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/editorial/weekiniraq/
This is an activist site with an obvious agenda. Can you do better ??
Actually their numbers are quite moderate. Have you seen the Lancet study?
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.......war is not something to be proud of. It doesn't make a nation great.
There's 6000 years of recorded human history that contradicts this.
Many great thinkers (The Chinese General Sun Tzu comes to mind) have said that the primary reason nations exist is to create the capacity to fight wars. War is something every successful nation must engage in.
If a dead Chinese guy thinks so, then it must be true! :o
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i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
Yes, he's probably the most typical Swede among the four of us here. I'm the most untypical Swede.
I'm not typically Swedish at all. Your statement tells us a lot more about you than it does about me.
First of all, while I live in Sweden, I'm a Finn. The Swedish citizenship happened because the Finnish military tried to draft me when I was 17. Long story.
I really have no idea why Swedes are so much anti-guns, by the way. The legislation is about as old and as restrictive as in most European countries, but guns have been pretty "impopular" in Sweden for about a century or so. It might have something to do with the peace movement being so early and so strong in Sweden.
Or it might be that some of us actually realize that the use for guns is pretty damned limited.
Give peace a chance, man.
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i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
Yes, he's probably the most typical Swede among the four of us here. I'm the most untypical Swede.
I'm not typically Swedish at all. Your statement tells us a lot more about you than it does about me.
First of all, while I live in Sweden, I'm a Finn. The Swedish citizenship happened because the Finnish military tried to draft me when I was 17. Long story.
Do they typically draft 17 year old boys, or was there some sort of mix-up?
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i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
Yes, he's probably the most typical Swede among the four of us here. I'm the most untypical Swede.
I'm not typically Swedish at all. Your statement tells us a lot more about you than it does about me.
First of all, while I live in Sweden, I'm a Finn. The Swedish citizenship happened because the Finnish military tried to draft me when I was 17. Long story.
Do they typically draft 17 year old boys, or was there some sort of mix-up?
I don't even think it's legal to draft 17 year old boys, maybe it was back then, though.
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Hey as I see Americans are cool. ;D
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i think i get odeon. is he a typical swede?
Yes, he's probably the most typical Swede among the four of us here. I'm the most untypical Swede.
I'm not typically Swedish at all. Your statement tells us a lot more about you than it does about me.
First of all, while I live in Sweden, I'm a Finn. The Swedish citizenship happened because the Finnish military tried to draft me when I was 17. Long story.
Do they typically draft 17 year old boys, or was there some sort of mix-up?
No mix-up. Eleven months in the military is, and was then, obligatory in Finland. The draft at 17 is a preliminary thing where they stake out your future in the military, do tests and all kinds of fun stuff to see what you're best suited for. Problem is, I was in the middle of a gymnasium term, in Sweden, with several more to come, so I said "no thanks". They responded with a threat where they basically said that they had the right to come and get me by force, if I didn't get there voluntarily.
I knew they'd do it so I had applied for, and got, a Swedish citizenship by then. I told them that they had no right to kidnap a citizen of another country. ;D
Of course, two or three years later, while I was studying physics, the Swedish military got in touch. They were easier to avoid, though. All I had to do was being honest with the shrink.
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Odeon, you are a rebel.
i like that.
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I have a problem with authorities.
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
Not a good analysis, given how things have played out.
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Considering how many lives that are lost in Iraq every day, both American, Iraqi, and otherwise, I doubt withdrawing the troops would make things worse. It's a war the US cannot win.
Not a good analysis, given how things have played out.
I've been trying to find actual numbers. There used to be a site--Iraq Body Count--but it seems to be down. My guess is that the numbers did go down for a while but are on the rise again.
I believe the US agreed with my analysis at the time, though, considering what they did.