INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: sg1008 on June 30, 2015, 05:57:51 PM
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From the view within Islam, the Saudi clerics and govt have been waaaaaaaay out of line for a long time...the brutality, control, and backwards ideologies supported by them are AGAINST Islam as it was practiced pre-state in Medina, as it evolved over time and places, and adapted around the world. The Saudi officials oppress their own people, support violent terrorism based organisations...but the really nasty fact is, they have tons and tons of money which funds propaganda, "missionaries" to other continents, publishing (censoring) companies, and control of pilgrimage access. They destroy sacred areas and graves in Saudi Arabia, omit historically significant pages of books, and teach a version of "Islam" that encourages people to devalue diverse schools of thought and differences in interpretation (a tradition of learning which is much more liberal, flexible in practice, and mystically geared). They effectively change history and try to claim/make Islam into a homogenous judgment- like some kind of nazi fascist interpretation of spiritual proportions. They are at the center of what westerners refer to as radicalisation. Yet, because of their political position they are rarely scrutinised by powerful governments in the world...who incidentally play right into Saudi propaganda by making belligerent political and military decisions and statements without directly challenging that major source of corruption. Our gov'ts will profile ISIS operatives, but they rarely profile Saudi officials...they will demonise "radicalised" youth, but rarely investigate the source of their material (the schools the teachers learn in, the publishers, the form of Islam being preached). They run after pawns and steer clear of the Kings....and they will lose because of it.
They should seriously consider divesting out of OPEC, and start focusing on renewable energy and local businesses. Its smarter in terms of policy, military tactical advantage, environment, employment, economy, international relations. Then they can feel free to criticise the Saud govt without fearing they will lose access to oil.
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They run after pawns and steer clear of the Kings....and they will lose because of it.
Or they will win. It's a very intelligent approach. Directly targeting rulers is more likely to result in public support for those leaders. Saddam was tried and convicted by his 'own people'.
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I'm disheartened to read modern cleric's new version of bullshit is ruining the historical true meaning of bullshit. :zoinks:
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I'm disheartened to read modern cleric's new version of bullshit is ruining the historical true meaning of bullshit. :zoinks:
lol
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They run after pawns and steer clear of the Kings....and they will lose because of it.
Or they will win. It's a very intelligent approach. Directly targeting rulers is more likely to result in public support for those leaders. Saddam was tried and convicted by his 'own people'.
But are they at least secretly plotting against those leaders?
If they wait too long it will be like Hitler all over again. Or maybe it is already like that... :apondering:
Dang.
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But are they at least secretly plotting against those leaders?
Of course not. That would require a conspiracy of global proportions.
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
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From the view within Islam
What does that mean? Is there a single voice that speaks for a fractured religion, or was there a poll taken?
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
In a way they already have in getting people to think of their nutty version of it when ever Islam is mentioned.
On a side note the very first friend I made when I went away to college was the son of one of the Saudi diplomats at the UN, he was about as Muslim as I am Catholic and would have been very happy if he never had to set foot in Saudi Arabia ever again he hated the place and everything it represented, it didn't stop him from cashing the check he got at the end of every month from them though
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
In a way they already have in getting people to think of their nutty version of it when ever Islam is mentioned.
On a side note the very first friend I made when I went away to college was the son of one of the Saudi diplomats at the UN, he was about as Muslim as I am Catholic and would have been very happy if he never had to set foot in Saudi Arabia ever again he hated the place and everything it represented, it didn't stop him from cashing the check he got at the end of every month from them though
I don't know why anyone with a ton of money stays there. Except maybe they enjoy subjugating women and beheading apostates. :dunno:
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
In a way they already have in getting people to think of their nutty version of it when ever Islam is mentioned.
On a side note the very first friend I made when I went away to college was the son of one of the Saudi diplomats at the UN, he was about as Muslim as I am Catholic and would have been very happy if he never had to set foot in Saudi Arabia ever again he hated the place and everything it represented, it didn't stop him from cashing the check he got at the end of every month from them though
Money is more powerful than most religions.
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From the view within Islam
What does that mean? Is there a single voice that speaks for a fractured religion, or was there a poll taken?
Meaning, from people who are Muslim and following happenings from a muslim vantage point....indicative of a crisis recognizable from both "within" and "without" the institution. Its like saying, "even the faithful priests (who are not necessarily biased against their religion) know there is effed up shit happening in the church".
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
In a way they already have in getting people to think of their nutty version of it when ever Islam is mentioned.
On a side note the very first friend I made when I went away to college was the son of one of the Saudi diplomats at the UN, he was about as Muslim as I am Catholic and would have been very happy if he never had to set foot in Saudi Arabia ever again he hated the place and everything it represented, it didn't stop him from cashing the check he got at the end of every month from them though
The particular ideology emanating from Saudi Arabia (Salafis) in large part frames most international discussions about Islam....many muslims (and even more non-muslims) are unaware of the various existing schools of thought which are generally deemed heretical under salafi interpretation....almost everything is heretical under salafi interpretation...they are like the fascism of Islam. But they are contemporary, not traditional. Most people who convert or try to find out more about their religion are guided straight into salafi interpretations.....its akin to the vantage that comes up in the first 5 pages of the "google search" of Islamic scholarship....bolstered not by merit, but by money.
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I disagree. To a significant part whatever discussion there is on Islam is dictated by the news. So ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc, as well as local highlights such as immigration problems or women wearing burkas.
Of course, a lot of today's topics--any topic, mind--are dictated by the news. Only then might some people do a Google search.
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Eh, I can't accept an individual viewpoint when it is couched as the viewpoint of an entire community. Especially when that community is split into factions trying to kill each other.
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Sorry, not meaning to represent the whole entire community. Just trying to qualify the perspective as one from within Islam, as opposed to an outsider critic. Maybe I didn't explain that well... I am trying to say...this is "insider information".
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Just trying to qualify the perspective as one from within Islam, as opposed to an outsider critic.
Are you an Islamic insider? :orly:
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Just trying to qualify the perspective as one from within Islam, as opposed to an outsider critic.
Are you an Islamic insider? :orly:
Not really. My teacher is though.
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There are too few of them to "ruin Islam".
In a way they already have in getting people to think of their nutty version of it when ever Islam is mentioned.
On a side note the very first friend I made when I went away to college was the son of one of the Saudi diplomats at the UN, he was about as Muslim as I am Catholic and would have been very happy if he never had to set foot in Saudi Arabia ever again he hated the place and everything it represented, it didn't stop him from cashing the check he got at the end of every month from them though
I don't know why anyone with a ton of money stays there. Except maybe they enjoy subjugating women and beheading apostates. :dunno:
Actually, that does sound like a lot of fun. Especially the beheading bit :headbang2:
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Just trying to qualify the perspective as one from within Islam, as opposed to an outsider critic.
Are you an Islamic insider? :orly:
Not really. My teacher is though.
Have you been insider? :zoinks:
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Just trying to qualify the perspective as one from within Islam, as opposed to an outsider critic.
Are you an Islamic insider? :orly:
Not really. My teacher is though.
What does that even mean?
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Pressure cooker at the moment, looking at Islam.
Maybe that is what makes a woman like Ayaan Hirsi Ali mildly optimistic about an Islam reformation. She's hoping for growing heresy, and seeing it happen too. She calls for a backing up and supporting of Muslim reformers.
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I meant, using the term "insider" about a teacher. It's a bit like labeling my old religion teacher as a Christianity insider.
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I meant, using the term "insider" about a teacher. It's a bit like labeling my old religion teacher as a Christianity insider.
I once was an insider too.
Now I am an interested and pretty well informed outsider, when it comes to some types of Christianity.
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I meant, using the term "insider" about a teacher. It's a bit like labeling my old religion teacher as a Christianity insider.
I once was an insider too.
Now I am an interested and pretty well informed outsider, when it comes to some types of Christianity.
It's sort of pointless, though, isn't it? Even with Christianity, there are simply too many factions. There is no such thing.
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I meant, using the term "insider" about a teacher. It's a bit like labeling my old religion teacher as a Christianity insider.
I once was an insider too.
Now I am an interested and pretty well informed outsider, when it comes to some types of Christianity.
It's sort of pointless, though, isn't it? Even with Christianity, there are simply too many factions. There is no such thing.
That was my same point. Saying one is an "insider" to Islam sounds crazed as Islam is made up of several factions who hate each other.
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I meant, using the term "insider" about a teacher. It's a bit like labeling my old religion teacher as a Christianity insider.
I once was an insider too.
Now I am an interested and pretty well informed outsider, when it comes to some types of Christianity.
It's sort of pointless, though, isn't it? Even with Christianity, there are simply too many factions. There is no such thing.
:indeed:
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It would be cool if somebody actually had some inside information to contribute.
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It would be cool if somebody actually had some inside information to contribute.
Like from actual clerics and government leaders? Would you believe it?
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It would be cool if somebody actually had some inside information to contribute.
Like from actual clerics and government leaders? Would you believe it?
No, from Jesus himself. Or Mohammadamadingdong.
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It would be cool if somebody actually had some inside information to contribute.
Like from actual clerics and government leaders? Would you believe it?
No, from Jesus himself. Or Mohammadamadingdong.
A lesser angel would also work.